Have a glimpse of the market and How to make wealth in PoE.

"

FullCust wrote:

This thread is disgusting; but then again I am ethical and refuse to flip shit for double the price of its original acquisition - its perfectly fine to make a profit of 20% but doubling and tripling is just out right cruel to the hapless buyer

I hate trading, I never trade, I hate that this game was designed in such a way to force people to trade. That said I cannot disagree with you more. The entire purpose of selling something is to increase profit - that is the only reason you sell something. If you want to help people, create a charity. Your arbitrary 'mark-up ethic' is just pulled from your ass, why 20% whats wrong with 30/40/50/60? If the BUYER is willing to pay then it is the BUYERS decision - nobody is holding a gun to their head.

Also, paying more for something isn't being 'scammed' we ALL PAY MORE for everything that we buy every day, we buy products that cost 1.50 to make for 15.00/25.00/50.00 (that's called good margins).

"

people like refix/oj juice man in onslaught that continually buy voll's devotion/shav's ring and rip them into SC to make massive profit by abusing Exalted ratio

My first 5 ex SC, good times, good times.

"

FullCust wrote:

you want poe to grow good honest, players that actually play fairly (which in turn will help maintain player base - community is everything) - not greedy calculating pack of thugs (eg: people like refix/oj juice man in onslaught that continually buy voll's devotion/shav's ring and rip them into SC to make massive profit by abusing Exalted ratio)

I would like to see this. And it is for this reason that I have been contributing to this thread and applaud it. Flipping itself is not intrinsically scummy; it's really no different than "retail," and most people see the value in retailers. (I also am convinced Inexium is the real deal, so that has a lot to do with it.)

However, if people continue to unjustly portray item flippers as unethical people who are only concerned with defrauding other players, the result will be the only flippers will be unethical people concerned only with defrauding other players. Imagine if having a normal retail store was cause for the scorn and ridicule of the community... would that lead to more honest business practices, or the opposite?

There is no reason not to encourage normal people to take up this activity. I believe strongly that large numbers of smart, ethical flippers would shape market forces to correct some of the worst abuses of the system. Smart flippers would still make profits, and what's wrong with that? (Other than haters gonna hate?) They are spending time, and they are providing a service; it's only fair that they make some currency as a result.

"

ventiman wrote:

"

reboticon wrote:

No one forces you to buy from a flipper. If you have that sort of disdain for them it just means that you are really, really terrible at figuring out what something is worth and quite a jealous person.

while this is true (not the jealous part) there are some differences the price you see in trade is generated you have to buy for that price if you want the item
d3 used this to the extreme it was really hard to determine the true value of an item because hundreds of those scumbags wanted to join the flipping train 10 became 12 ,12 became 15 and so on the item you want to buy is worth 10 but sells in the end for something like 32

a flipper doesnt only prey on the missing knowledge of his victim he also manipulates the price of the item itself

if you buy lets say 10 thunderfists for 7-8ex have an alt account with wtb thunderfists spaming for 10ex get hundreds of wispers each day because you pay 2-3 ex more than market value but you never answer those pm neither do you buy you create a fake demand and a fake price in a small league like onslaught this is easy doable

i read scroties post and i think its bullshit a game doesnt need farmer and a game doesnt need flipper both are cancer to a game the farmer inflates everything with mass production and the flipper creates a fake price

flipping is the lowest form of trading skills which someone can aquire you basicly buy something and hope someone is dumb enough to buy it for a higher price from you
same like real estate if i cut the middle man i save a lot of money

shavronenns is a nice example used to be 35 in os last month now it sells for 50 (at least recording to tradechat) and i could slowly observe how it went from 35-37-42-46-50

some guy wanted to buy items from my thread told him i know he is a flipper and to f.. off

OK, I agree with the bold part. People who do that are shitheads. For the rest, it's just like your example of real estate to me. I am 100% not a flipper, my shop is setup like yours. You pay what you want (with the exception of high end uniques with an established price.) I don't like to sit on items. If someone offers waaay more than an item is worth, I tell them, "No, it's not worth that, I'll take 60% of your offer." I sold my BoR for 4.5ex when they were going for 5. If that guy wants to flip it for .5 ex, he is welcome to, IDC, I'll make more than that farming. Or if he held it for a month and then flipped it and made more, IDC about that either. It could have just as easily gone down.

All that said, I've watched how Inexium does it, and that's now how he operates. He goes into for sale threads, and he leaves an offer. If they take it, great he can flip it. If they don't, he moves on to the next item. Those people know how to use XYZ, because they put B/O tags in. If they want to sell for his slightly lower offer, he's not doing anything unethical.

Thx for believing in me Scrotie, it's pretty cool.
Special thx for Reboticon who is always here for me aswell x)


@ventiman : the way you speak is broken, using the words : shit + scumbag, someone would feel like if you are calling ME ( original poster) as a scumbag, so are you calling me that ? Let's make things clear right now!

I know you are not and i know it's just the way you are( you speak what you think, with huge hatred toward the world) i understand you, i am 100% convinced you did not meant what you said about flippers to target me, or do you insult ALL FLIPPERS ? )


It does not really matter, because here Reboticon just explained to you how dealing with a normal ( non dishonest ) flipper is okay.



______


Now let me answer myself others.


A lot of you are acting like kids.

The kind of answers saying :

- This game is disgusting for having the flipping option possible
- This thread is disgusting

Are easy answers letting you express you primitive and quick answers towarsd what you see as a threat.


We actually, readers of this thread, are not interested by your feelings. We need to read something useful.


If you tried to use your mind, you would understand that this thread is putting under the light those practices and is actually protecting you from falling to guys who are using them.

What is better, having 900.000 players flipping items and 100.000 others being ripped off.

Or : having 500.000 flippers + 400.000 players knowing about the flip practices because they read about them on this thread +100.000 others who did not read this thread yet ?


So you either say something useful or you go rage with your feelings about flippers to you moms. Thanks

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

I would like to see this. And it is for this reason that I have been contributing to this thread and applaud it. Flipping itself is not intrinsically scummy; it's really no different than "retail," and most people see the value in retailers.

This isn't true in any aspect of the retail industry. Retailers do actually provide a service, but what service do flippers provide?

- They purchase items at below market value from sellers.
- They sell items at, or above market value to buyers.

They cause inflation by creating a barrier between buyers and sellers. This is the reason why rare items never drop in price until the market is over saturated to the point they are worthless.


+++++++++++++


I can certainly see a place for flipping if it provides some kind of service to other players, but last time I checked there wasn't 20+ min walks between towns.

"

BloodReign wrote:

Spoiler

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

I would like to see this. And it is for this reason that I have been contributing to this thread and applaud it. Flipping itself is not intrinsically scummy; it's really no different than "retail," and most people see the value in retailers.

This isn't true in any aspect of the retail industry.

Retailers do actually provide a service, but what service do flippers provide?

Convenience. Let me quote reboticon...

"

reboticon wrote:

Is he ripping off the people selling it below the established market price? Nope, not at all. For instance, I sell all my drops -below- the established market price by 10-25%. Why? So they sell faster and I can get back to playing. I don't care one way or the other how big of a pile of exalts I have. That's why I mentioned several pages earlier that if you loathe the trading game like I do, it can be worth it to find one person to unload all of your stuff to at a discounted rate.

The difference between reboticon and most farmers is that he is self-aware; the typical farmer quickly trades off his farmed wares, for below market value due to a lack of time commitment — thus the motivation is the same, convenience — yet then gripes about how flippers are continually ripping people off, despite the fact they themselves are willingly a part of the same system they're bitching about.

I recently bought an undisclosed unique weapon for 1 alc, then after some usage sold it for 20 alcs when I was done. Does that make me a disgusting scumbag flipper?

+1 to this thread

bowing out

What? It has EVERYTHING to do with supply and demand. There is a low supply of Shav ring and Voll amulet because people are ripping them to standard. Demand (for use in onslaught) stays the same. With Demand = same and supply = low, prices increase. That's econ 101.

Besides, that has nothing to do with what Inexium is talking about in this thread, as he flips in Anarchy, where items stay. Lobby for Onslaught items to be deleted upon character death. It'd make most of the standard players happier as well.