Have a glimpse of the market and How to make wealth in PoE.

"

RunMyWay wrote:

Buy 11 gcp for 1 ex so you have 11 gcp sell them for 27.5 chaos 1:2.5 now buy 1 ex for 25 chaos profit 2.5 chaos do it 10 times and you have made 1 ex. Hard part is to sell the gcp

I can farm and vendor rares for more currency in less time that it takes you to actually find people to make that series of trades with.

I believe the purpose of this topic is for ways players can consistently make more by trading than farming with a sporker.

Also, I can't remember if I posted this in this particular thread or not:

Based on my experience of IDing thousands and thousands of rare items, you're better off doing the unID'd vendor combo recipe for 2 chaos orbs.

My basis for this is purely subjective, but I feel like the chances of actually IDing a rare item and it being worth 1ex+ is so incredibly rare, that you're more likely to find a big ticket unique item than a rare item of that caliber.

Also I don't even really give a shit about the potential rare items vendored un-ID'd that are worth lets say, 5-10 chaos? And even those I estimate are 1 in 1000 drops. Also I hate trading with players for low amounts of currency, and I feel like its a waste of time personally. And even if you wanna do the math and break the numbers down, at the end of the day, getting a guaranteed 2 chaos orbs per recipe is better than gambling on incredibly low odds of getting an item you MIGHT be able to sell for a few chaos orbs.

Here is the efficient way to set this up:

Dedicate 1-2+ stash tabs for the unID'd recipe, and build up a stock. Organize them in a way where its easy to determine how many of which types you got, so you can ID and vendor any others of that type that you have plenty of un-ID'd items in stock for. When you get a sufficient amount in stock, like lets say, enough to knock out 4+ recipes? Do them all at once. You'll be like, wow? I just made 8 chaos like it was nothing, and didn't have to trade with anyone? Next thing you know, you'll have stacks and stacks of chaos orbs.

So yeah, even if you do un-ID'd recipes by this method, you'll still end up IDing and vendoring most rares you get for alt shards anyway. I find that its very easy to replenish the stock for armor/helm/glove/boot/2h.

The bottleneck for me is ALWAYS rings. Always. And amulets and belts also seem less common than armor/helmet/glove/boots/2h. So pretty much every rare ring and amulet I find is going in chaos vendor stockpile. As well as most of the belts.

If you wanna gamble on rings/amulets, you're better off using alchs on white ones, because currently the alch to chaos exchange seems to be 3 or 4:1 chaos. Considering unID'd rings seem to always be the bottleneck for me on a 2 chaos vendor recipe, its a no brainer to not ever ID rings/amulets, and use alchs if I feel like gambling.

Another thing I do, if I want to setup a consistent flow of chaos orbs into my inventory over a sorta extended period is stockpile up an entire stash tab of just unID'd rings/amulets. You'll be able to knock out chaos orb recipes consistently for days with that sort of pool, because all the other items are easy to get. So its not a bad idea to take a break from chaos recipes to build up a solid pool of rings.

Few days of knocking out chaos recipes:



This is why I don't give a shit about trying to sell low value rare items. Not a single one of those chaos orbs was obtained by trading with ANYONE.

I agree with smiles up there. Also if you find yourself with more rings than amulets for 2x chaos recipe, simply get 7 iron rings and vendor with ring to get rare amulet. Usually, it skewers the other way though and you need rings.

This mainly works for softcore leagues, as there's a considerable and well-understood difference in market satiation with decent rings/belts/amulets as compared to hardcore, and those slots are typically the most likely to end up valuable at high item levels, being independent of socket configurations or attribute requirements. Indeed I wouldn't care much about most weapons, helmets and whatnot, but every once in a while I stumble upon rare rings and amulets that go for several chaos each when placed in a shop. YMMV.

I like your comments moozooh.

Good luck in making The guide, and in case, i am not part of it, don't forget to give me credits please ( not too many non poor players share their knowledge ) maybe name the guide with my name or something.

Final note : Things are going to change, guilds might affect the market. Another point i forgot to tell my friend ShadwRoca to say is : Stay informed about changes in items (Examples : Goddess Bound. Uniques nerfs like Kaom's heart who will soon reach several hundreds of exalts i think)

And don't forget to promote sharing. You will never live comfortable with all those exalts youy make unless if you give a little of them each month. ;)

"

nynyny wrote:

"

a flipper doesnt only prey on the missing knowledge of his victim he also manipulates the price of the item itself

A person who doesnt do proper research deserves whats coming to him, simple as that.

"

flipping is the lowest form of trading skills which someone can aquire

You realize that it basically is THE trading skill, dont you? Its an investment which you hope will make a profit. Theres no complicated way of trading. What is a player supposed to do? Hand out loans and ask for the money back plus interest after a week?

Flipping is (as stated too many times), buying items cheep and selling them expensive, so you gain profit.
That's not "normal" trading, where you play the game, get an item you want to sell, and go search for ways to sell it.
I assume everybody is "fine" with that 2nd form of trading, but not with the 1st one. There are differences.

Anyways, I like this thread in that it gives some advice and stuff. Some people are being too harsh on OP, he's not the evil mastermind behind the negative stuff of POE's trading system or anything. He's just a dude that found time to give us some of his advice, which may be very helpful.
But yeah, on the other hand this threaded dwelt into a discussion about the economy and trading in general...which isn't bad. But don't yell at OP because of that >_>


P.S: Also to the people saying "what's wrong with someone trying to gain more profit by flipping and stuff? That happens in real life so deal with it!"....yeah, just because something happens in real life it doesn't mean it should. You do get ripped off in real life as well, and when it comes down to certain situations it's not nice at all (for instance when you don't know much about a specific subject and they use that to their advantage to rip the fuck out of you, or when you are in an urgency or in an unstable emotional state and they take advantage of that to an extreme level, or other stuff).

I'd say in POE it's very very easy to be "ignorant". In real life you can easily check different prices between different vendors. In the mall you go to one stand and see a jacket costs 100$, you go to the next stand and see it costs 150$. You can easily know if you are getting ripped off or not, and you can make choices based on that (continue and get that item, even when you know you are getting ripped off, or just not buy it). You can do that in seconds. In POE you can't, there's no "shopping mall", there's no "google something for its price and check different prices in 10 seconds". In POE it's just spamming trade chat until 1-2 guys tell you their prices (which is still not enough to know if you are indeed getting ripped off or not), or go out of the game to the forums and search it or create threads to ask about it, etc. It doesn't take 10 seconds, not even 10 minutes, it might take days.
It's just too much inconvenient. Even then, not everybody has the urge to do stuff like that, or even figures out they have to do all those steps just to check whether the price someone is offering is fair.
It's easy to say "it's the fault of the guy getting ripped off for being ignorant!" when the alternative is "for you to know the correct value of the item, you have to board a plane to Peru, scale Machi Pichu on a handstand, then drink Llama urine and parachute into the ocean where the wind will tell you the answer! It's your fault for not doing that or figuring out you should do that!"

"

gonzaw wrote:

P.S: Also to the people saying "what's wrong with someone trying to gain more profit by flipping and stuff? That happens in real life so deal with it!"....yeah, just because something happens in real life it doesn't mean it should. You do get ripped off in real life as well, and when it comes down to certain situations it's not nice at all (for instance when you don't know much about a specific subject and they use that to their advantage to rip the fuck out of you, or when you are in an urgency or in an unstable emotional state and they take advantage of that to an extreme level, or other stuff).

I'd say in POE it's very very easy to be "ignorant". In real life you can easily check different prices between different vendors. In the mall you go to one stand and see a jacket costs 100$, you go to the next stand and see it costs 150$. You can easily know if you are getting ripped off or not, and you can make choices based on that (continue and get that item, even when you know you are getting ripped off, or just not buy it). You can do that in seconds. In POE you can't, there's no "shopping mall", there's no "google something for its price and check different prices in 10 seconds". In POE it's just spamming trade chat until 1-2 guys tell you their prices (which is still not enough to know if you are indeed getting ripped off or not), or go out of the game to the forums and search it or create threads to ask about it, etc. It doesn't take 10 seconds, not even 10 minutes, it might take days.
It's just too much inconvenient. Even then, not everybody has the urge to do stuff like that, or even figures out they have to do all those steps just to check whether the price someone is offering is fair.
It's easy to say "it's the fault of the guy getting ripped off for being ignorant!" when the alternative is "for you to know the correct value of the item, you have to board a plane to Peru, scale Machi Pichu on a handstand, then drink Llama urine and parachute into the ocean where the wind will tell you the answer! It's your fault for not doing that or figuring out you should do that!"

Actually it's the same in real life for many many many of us.
Example : Someone buy a unique brazilian fruit and come to flip it in Europe.
Yes you can use your money( time ) to travel to Brazil ( forums ) and get it for cheaper.. ( i don't need to to explain to you this sentence right ? )
The guy who is flipping an item ( the fruit ) used some of his time ( money ) to deliver you INSTANTLY what you need, for a higher price, i guess;)
I see a lot of old men and women being raped when they want to buy something because they have 0 knowledge about the real prices of the things, like buying a computer. A lot of us know how to Min max the price/power of a computer we want to buy, while the ignorant will have no choice, only to buy the computer in a big supermarket.
My computer is worth more than 1000€ i bought it for a little bit more than half its price ;)
Add to that the very interesting sentence you wrote :
> jacket costs 100$, you go to the next stand and see it costs 150$ <
I bet the price of raw materials are like 1-10% of what the price they should be bought for, yes production is not similar to flipping but don't you feel the flip value is a little too huge ( or, Apple devices and price of raw materials )?
SO yeah it's not like flipping 'in this case' but a lot of people are selling to us their invested time for high values, invested time or/and money actually.. :
- Time : Sell to you the knowledge applied to make a device in the other hand you can start the same studies and make the device yourself for cheaper
- Money : Seel to you the fact that he had the money to buy an item while you did not have, and sell it to you for higher. ( flipping )

So i agree with you except on these :

"I'd say in POE it's very very easy to be "ignorant". In real life you can easily check different prices between different vendors...In POE you can't, there's no "shopping mall", there's no "google something for its price and check different prices in 10 seconds"

In real life it's easy aswell!
And, nope there are "shopping malls":
http://poetradechat.com/search.php
poe.xyz.is



My opinion : Flipping is okay or good when the following rules are set :
1. You must invest ( Money + Time ) at the same time, if you use only your time then you are farming for items, if you use only money and go buy an item and flip it in the same hour then....(oh wait this is part of what i do when i say go check buying forum, hmm i don't know what to think about it.)
And finally if you use Money+Time, you provide many benefits :
a. You help the seller selling his item and let him go play poe rather than wasting his time trading.
b. You help the buyer to get his item instantly.


2. You have to make some giveaways from time to time=> There is more than just exalts and mirrors in this virtual world, some players are very happy to get FREE items from a random giveaway ( i am not talking about players who beg for items ).

3. You gather knowledge about items and can share it in Price Check forums or help friends price checking.

___
All of this was about *items*
________________________________

Flipping currencies is a much more complicated subject and an interesting one.
You gather MORE currencies because you HAVE CURRENCIES and invest them + a tiny little bit of time.
My opinion on it => I don't like it. ( i would love its profits *if* i tried it though )


@As for people being harsh to me ? No don't worry i am very very pleased having this thread, espacially when i ask myself : should i write that "long" message on page 20 i made for that little question that player asked ? And when you do it you get moozooh attention and maybe other valuable opinion makers attention. I enjoyed it.
( the only ones who may be harsh are the ones who don't want you to know about flipping and market behaviours ;) )
If we can make a bigger guide it would be great!

free bump for amazing thread

Thanks.

__

Making a real perfect trading guild requires from you( me) to be a very big player and i am not ready yet for it, for now at least.
_____

Another way to get wealth in poe, is to stream and do the following :
- Acquire Easy sellers who are watching you.
- Acquire quick buyers because their friends are watching that you need some items.
- Acquire bro deals if the wiewers like you.
- compliment with your friends an item you found and that you intend to sell.

__ The key is to want it "badly!" If you want to gather exalts you will find a way.