Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

Hi

Thaelyn

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I'm suggesting severing the tie between the crafting and the economy, whether by making orbs no trade so they can serve their crafting purposes, or by some other changes. As long as crafting orbs are the official currency of the game, the crafting system will never realize it's potential. I understand GGG's desire to rethink gold as a currency, but the way they went about it served to gate crafting behind trade and compound the issues self found players face in terms of gear progression. A separate league hides from the real problems rather than try to solve them and in the process runs a very high risk of creating more problems.

Errrrr.... Gold really? I do not think you understand the idea of what SFL is. Although I do agree crafting system could use a less random approach I do not think GGG is going to do such a thing, they may add more orbs, but gold.......

TheAnuhart

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Gear progression is affected, sure, but it is a matter of time and at least that time is spent, because of gear/power issues, actually fighting monsters that pose a threat, which could be seen as satisfactory game play. The amount of time this takes is personal opinion as to whether it's too long or not, finding that balance isn't easy.

Finding balance is all I am trying to do. Increasing items isn't the issue as much as increasing the orb drops to compensate for no trading and encourage ''crafting'' since the rate of orb drops isn't possible to do such.

dessloc

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So, is the idea that you want more pulls at the POE slot machine crafting system than other players who do not wish to have such a restricted playstyle? Shouldn't an improved crafting experience for everyone be the desired outcome?

In a perfect game yes... but in the meantime they need to start experimenting somewhere before bringing the new system to the main leagues.

I sure would love to see other players that want to quote me suggest THEIR 4-5 main points of what SFL to them should have as guidelines.

Separate league 1-4 months long SFL at the end all players gear is erased.

SFL:1)No trades with players.2)Increased orb drop rates NOT items.3)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.4)No party benefits/No loot allocation timer(what drops for you remains yours)

SFL to me is the idea of playing the game and getting a descent-like experience of survival; not this current I grind for orbs ,never craft because they are to rare when dropping so I will save them for over inflated trading and then when I trade I may feel happy I got this uber item I would never have gotten otherwise but it is a hollow feeling when compared to finding a uber object or crafting it myself... This feeling, this essence is what is lacking with the current system. The grind sucks all the joy of game play out.

cheers

I agree. I did NOT read all 66 pages. That's a lot. I read the first 2 pages including dev response which I feel missed the mark completely and lacked any imagination or thought.

A self found league with increased orb drops (remember, this isn't a currency in this type of league so you must dissociate the thought of orbs with currency) to promote crafting to compensate for lack of trading would be awesome.

I don't see any reason not to keep IIR/IIQ rolls on gear as is currently setup. Heck, everything else should remain about the same. Inherently increased iiq and iir perhaps, increased orbs. Maybe the vendors in town can also see a change in their economy to allow purchase of exalts and eternals as well as decreased prices in things such as scours. Also, the weapons and jewelery inventories maybe can be cycled bi-weekly or something to give more opportunity to grow.

It would certainly be a more rewarding league.

I've seen mention of partying and to be honest I'd probably rather not have any partying in the league. If there is it should be stone set on permanent loot allocation that stays despite zoning in or out. Also, have that apply to all character's gear as they enter the zone so no one can drop items.

100 thousand million quad trillion % for this.

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dessloc wrote:

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Finkenstein wrote:

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)Increased orb drop rates NOT items.3)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.4) No loot allocation timer(what drops for you is yours alone),No party benefits except for harder monsters.

So, is the idea that you want more pulls at the POE slot machine crafting system than other players who do not wish to have such a restricted playstyle? Shouldn't an improved crafting experience for everyone be the desired outcome?

What better place to adjust and experience the crafting system than in a league in which adjusting the orb drops has zero economic effect.

You can't skip all the steps in between to reach your desired end.

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Rhys wrote:

If you're talking about non-consensual PvP, then your analogy doesn't work, because in that case it's impossible to play non-PvP because you can't stop others from attacking you, whereas with self-found, no-one can force you to trade with them. The two scenarios are very different.

No, but YOU can force us to trade with them. The way you do that is by adjusting drop rates such that they work in a highly efficient economy thereby screwing over the individualists. Surely that is obvious, right? It's your own line of reasoning for not wanting to implement more efficient trading systems.

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I mean, we already have this functionality in the game right now.

If you're talking the bandit quest I consider that not simply non-consensual PvP but also blatant trickery. Nope, I've never gotten tricked by it because I don't group. Your text sucks. There ought to be a pop up with a great big gong sound that says, "By clicking [OK] you WILL be fighting with other players right now."

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Finkenstein wrote:

Finding balance is all I am trying to do.

If balancing the game is the true objective of a suggestion, the suggestion should alter current the current leagues, not create new ones.

SFL is not about balance, it's about "underpowered revenge." Take the thing that's allegedly OP and don't just nerf it, but nerf it so hard it literally becomes impossible. It would be like retroactively removing Shavronne's from the game, then saying "we balanced Shavronne's." No, you amputated it. There is an important difference.

I'm not trying to make like amputation is a totally unacceptable practice; sometimes, in both medicine and game design, it's fully justified. But it's never a matter of balance, it's always a refusal to do so.

Is trading actually so diseased that it couldn't be fixed? Is it truly beyond salvation? Is trading unbalanceable?

If you believe the answer to that is "yes," then continue to post here; I disagree, but at least your proposal matches your intent instead of grossly exceeding it. If the answer is "no," then how about we actually fix trading instead?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

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Finkenstein wrote:

Finding balance is all I am trying to do.

If balancing the game is the true objective of a suggestion, the suggestion should alter current the current leagues, not create new ones.

SFL is not about balance, it's about "underpowered revenge." Take the thing that's allegedly OP and don't just nerf it, but nerf it so hard it literally becomes impossible. It would be like retroactively removing Shavronne's from the game, then saying "we balanced Shavronne's." No, you amputated it. There is an important difference.

I'm not trying to make like amputation is a totally unacceptable practice; sometimes, in both medicine and game design, it's fully justified. But it's never a matter of balance, it's always a refusal to do so.

Is trading actually so diseased that it couldn't be fixed? Is it truly beyond salvation? Is trading unbalanceable?

If you believe the answer to that is "yes," then continue to post here; I disagree, but at least your proposal matches your intent instead of grossly exceeding it. If the answer is "no," then how about we actually fix trading instead?

Everyone knows trading needs a serious fix, but I don't understand why you keep harping on about this, in conjunction with a league where it simply won't exist.

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Finkenstein wrote:

Errrrr.... Gold really? I do not think you understand the idea of what SFL is. Although I do agree crafting system could use a less random approach I do not think GGG is going to do such a thing, they may add more orbs, but gold.......

I'm happy to have an exchange of ideas with you, Fink. That said, please don't pull the chicken shit move of attributing something to me that I never said. Never once in 500 some odd posts on this website have I advocated the use of gold. Not one time. Also, I understand perfectly well what SFL is about. I supported the idea for some time. Now I don't because I no longer think it's the right way to go for the game. Do there need to be improvements to self found? I think the answer to that is absolutely yes. Is SFL the improvement that is needed? No, it's not. What's needed is a solution to the issues that prompted the request to begin with, not a place to hide from them.

For those of you saying "SFL isn't the answer, fixing the problems that exist in the current leagues is the answer" How do you suggest it gets fixed? I can't personally see a solution to making crafting a viable option to trading as long as both are tied to the same items (orbs.) I would love to hear some suggestions though, as I surely haven't thought of everything.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

... "underpowered revenge"... "amputation"

ScrotumMcBollocks, the harbinger of hyperbole.

Watch this space people, next week, I vote for... "L O B O T O M I Z E"

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Thaelyn wrote:

Also, I understand perfectly well what SFL is about. I supported the idea for some time. Now I don't because I no longer think it's the right way to go for the game. Do there need to be improvements to self found? I think the answer to that is absolutely yes. Is SFL the improvement that is needed? No, it's not. What's needed is a solution to the issues that prompted the request to begin with, not a place to hide from them.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge there hasn't been even a poofteenth, of a bee's dick, of a skerrick of an admission from GGG that they consider trading/solo/self-found/crafting to be seriously wonky overall.

The closest they have come (recently) is perhaps better access to 4 links mid game. They have even failed to grasp why people hoarded orbs, when they experimented with increased drop-rate ages ago. They don't like bound items either, which is what Scrotie has been suggesting for a long time (just orbs I think).

They just - don't - see - a - problem. So what is there to "fix" from their viewpoint.

Sweet Fuck All, from what I have seen in many many months, and what appears to be the current reality. If the chance of them modifying the core-game balance is near zero, then a SFL is the least intrusive option.

Please, I beg of you, give me an example of anything from GGG that would help me to see this conundrum in another light.