Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

I have been reading all these great posts in this thread over the last few day. And its great to see this kind of discussion.

I just want to know why GGG does not want a self found league? Give the players what they want. Or give some of the players what they want. I can't think of any downside. Divide the community- well self found players currently don't interact anyway,
Easier game- trading makes the game easier then currently playing self found, we just want an equal time invested vs reward compared to people who trade.

I have a Lv 64 marauder who is self found
And 4 other toons who are 70+ but they have all traded.

The problem is playing self found is soooo much slower in terms of gear progression. I want to be a self found warrior, not a stock market trader.... But at the moment being a trader is far more efficient in terms of time/reward.

Peace

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ToxicRatt wrote:

One of the biggest things that irk me is the "crafting" in the game. If I want to gamble I will go to Vegas.

SFL with increased drop rates would make it fun to gambl...errr....craft.

Would prefer they enhance crafting for everyone, not just those who want to play in a league with a very particular playstyle.

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dessloc wrote:

Would prefer they enhance crafting for everyone, not just those who want to play in a league with a very particular playstyle.

I have been wondering this same question myself. When I look at what game mechanic would be most appealing to me it boils down the crafting. Looking at the facts that GGG has in front of them it should be blatantly obvious that the duality of currency as craft items is a total failure. I think beefing up this portion of the game would go along way to "silencing" this SFL thread.

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Poprocker wrote:

I have been reading all these great posts in this thread over the last few day. And its great to see this kind of discussion.

I just want to know why GGG does not want a self found league? Give the players what they want. Or give some of the players what they want. I can't think of any downside. Divide the community- well self found players currently don't interact anyway,
Easier game- trading makes the game easier then currently playing self found, we just want an equal time invested vs reward compared to people who trade.

I have a Lv 64 marauder who is self found
And 4 other toons who are 70+ but they have all traded.

The problem is playing self found is soooo much slower in terms of gear progression. I want to be a self found warrior, not a stock market trader.... But at the moment being a trader is far more efficient in terms of time/reward.

Peace

Trading will -always- be far more efficient in terms of time/reward in a game where the loot is completely random.

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BloodReign wrote:

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dessloc wrote:

Would prefer they enhance crafting for everyone, not just those who want to play in a league with a very particular playstyle.

I have been wondering this same question myself. When I look at what game mechanic would be most appealing to me it boils down the crafting. Looking at the facts that GGG has in front of them it should be blatantly obvious that the duality of currency as craft items is a total failure. I think beefing up this portion of the game would go along way to "silencing" this SFL thread.

Precisely. You'll never be able to extricate gear drops from trading, as the ability to trade absolutely demands that item drops be balanced with trade as a consideration.

GGG can, however, separate crafting from trade. The crafting system in this game is, in my opinion, potentially one of the best systems GGG have put in place. It's sad that it's potential is unrealized due it being so heavily tied into trading. Hence my sig. Unfortunately, I don't think they will do anything to sever the two.

Thanks for the feedback, I added links to them into the 5th post.


Seeing that many self-found player actually don't wish for an own league
but wish more balancing around self-found play itself,
I probably need to reformulate the first post.
Especially the suggestion given.

I will, over the course of the day, include the suggestion to balance the game focusing on self-found rather than creating an own SFL into the main post, so people don't get the wrong impression about positions being taken by self-found players. I will add commonly called reasons for this suggestions. I probably need to restructure pros and cons as some only apply to SFL.

Please excuse my slow reaction considering this.
I should have realized it earlier and update the thread accordingly.

Edit: DONE!


Reminder:

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UPDATE:
I would welcome even more actual first hand self-found feedback.
Remember to share your average time spend in-game,
as well as points in-game which were hard to overcome.
It would be really valuable if you could state how long it took to overcome this points.
Tell us about your builds, equipment and so on.
Everything that could matter balancing wise!
Don't forget to mention if you play solo exclusively!

GGG can hopefully use some of the feedback given to locate some problems.


If you have an idea about other confounding problems, like ScrotieMcB elaborated,
then feel free to post them here or better link a thread dedicated to the topic.
I will Cross-Link it here then.


Crafting in this game is the thing I like the most beside the Passive Skill Tree.
Many feel that crafting however is hidden behind trade,
given that buying items in an active economy with enough supply
will always be cheaper than using currency to invest into crafting.

Seeing the lately crafting heavy discussion,
I would welcome links to suggestion or feedback threads dedicated to this topic.

i really hope we'll get a selffound craftsman league...

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Subversus wrote:

Well one big issue I can spot right away are your leveling goals with the game in its current state. The top players who are grinding past 80+ right now are nuts in my opinion, as the very highest areas one can farm are only 77, and those areas also happen to be rare and expensive.

People throw around the term "well its a beta" perhaps too loosely at times, but it's warranted here, because endgame is not finished yet. You aren't meant to come close to 90 let alone 100 unless you're no-lifing like a fiend.

We will inevitably see higher level areas introduced to act 3x/4 and so on (allowing you to farm level 70-80 areas that aren't maps), and I wouldn't be surprised if higher level maps are introduced as well.

you are misinformed. GGG have stated that expansions will not raise the level cap, eventually cruel will be dropped and the content will stay up to lvl68 with 5 acts, 6 acts, however many are added. Does that still hold up? I dunno, we have asked for clarification on this many, many times and GGG wont give it, but by current statements there will never be higher in game content and what you say about not being meant to reach beyond 80 is hence invalid. Chris GGG has said he is not happy about the way the map situation stopping people being able to grind to 100, he didnt follow that up with 'but you will have to wait for act4 when the content is there to grind because you are not supposed to get past 80 right now', he said they are looking at ways around it and gave one example of letting you access maps for xp and not items, because the reason maps are inaccessible is to limit the flow of high ilvl gear into the economy, not to stop you getting past 80.


I have played as many hours as most streamers, Ive played this game more in 6 months than most people will over the next 3 years.

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Subversus wrote:

Another thing, concerning links, a 5 link isn't essential to your success in the game, and by success I mean successfully killing monsters. GGG has already said that a 5+ linked item should be considered a luxury, even though it's technically possible to 6-link in 1 fusing.

The game always has been and always will be centered around RNG, and if this is a concept that bothers you to such extremes then its gonna take more than minor tweaks to the game to make you happy.

5 link is essential, if GGG have something else in their head they need to get that crap out of their ideology. Qarl talks about players playing for 1000+ hours, takes me 3 days to get a character to the late 70s where the content I am facing requires a 5 link with all but the most basic of builds. 3 days, maybe 24 hours play. The other 976+ hours require a 5 link and Im not even willing to humour anyone who says differently, theyre talking bullshit.

RNG is weighted by odds, odds are set very exactly by the devs, its got nothing to do with RNG and everything to do with the actual numbers being attached to process like using gear you find. Scrolls drops are RNG, mirror drops are RNG, how many scrolls you found vs mirrors? Im 31 years old, I got Diablo 1 when it first came out, I remember playing Gauntlet on a 286 before RNG even entered the scene, I don't think I need you to tell me about RNG and its part in a modern ARPG, I am talking about crafting mechanisms that I do not want to take part in being forced on me by their attachment to all the gear I find and the odds that are being attached to the drop rates of the orbs and the likelyhood of getting what I need from my found gear. And when I say I need a 5 link, yes, I need one unless you want to make an argument that this is a 3 day game and playing beyond 3 days on 1 character is not part of the design.


Im not saying it should be easy, Im saying spending 400 fusing and not getting a 5 link is ridiculous. If someone like me who no lifes the game every single day and grinds with 300iir 100iiq in act3 merciless is left feeling its hopeless to try and use gear I find then something is fucked. What is the point in me grinding for more gear when I cant even use the gear I already found? It fundamentally destroys all motivation to play the game, cant use the gear you find, cant get any xp, how does that concept fit with the motivations in an ARPG?

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Nightmare90 wrote:

Many feel that crafting however is hidden behind trade,
given that buying items in an active economy with enough supply
will always be cheaper than using currency to invest into crafting.

Seeing the lately crafting heavy discussion,
I would welcome links to suggestion or feedback threads dedicated to this topic.

If you trade, crafting is mostly pointless until such high gear and currency levels. The levels that you would get to as a result of trading any way.

For those who don't trade, crafting has more value, as the easier alternative (buying the item) isn't there. But then shit like this happens...

3 days before the eternal orbs were introduced, I had been attempting to craft an ele wand for.. forever. Thousands of alterations (probably about 5k), hundreds of augmentations, dozens of regals and chaos, and several exalts. Then I happened to chaos this...



...not a good ele wand, but a lovely starter for a physical wand.

At that moment, I knew I would be creating a phys wander in the future. Yay for eternal orbs.

June 3rd 0.11.0 landed, with the introduction of the eternal orb.
I have played every day since, I play extreme hours, I can play up to 16 hours a day.
It is 3 months to the day since that patch, I will have put in something like >1000 hours since that patch. I have MF'd lunaris at ~50 Piety runs in a day, I have chained low to mid level maps, again in high MF. I have quite luckily progressed through every map in game, albeit short lived. At one point, I actually picked up no less than 10 exalted orbs off the floor within a 14 day period.

I have still to see an eternal drop.
My wand is in limbo, crafting, for me, took a turn which didn't better it whatsoever.
What it did, was put even more trade emphasis on crafting.

Hi

Changing the orb drop rates would go a long way for crafting but then that is when mf gets in the way.

SFL should be a league, less of a headache for GGG to contend with. One SFL league even once would give more then enough vital data for GGG to make a better informed decision.

GGG needs to really just re-vamp there definition of crafting to gambling, it is a joke to refer to it as crafting. I feel like going to my local casino to do some crafting...Lol.

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)Increased orb drop rates NOT items.3)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.4) No loot allocation timer(what drops for you is yours alone),No party benefits except for harder monsters.

Is the problem really just that SFL is a true niche of players? I thought GGG wanted niche players. Or is it that SFL players suggest subtly that GGG economy is messed?

cheers