Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Finkenstein wrote:

Is the problem really just that SFL is a true niche of players? I thought GGG wanted niche players. Or is it that SFL players suggest subtly that GGG economy is messed?

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Finkenstein wrote:

Hi

Changing the orb drop rates would go a long way for crafting but then that is when mf gets in the way.

SFL should be a league, less of a headache for GGG to contend with. One SFL league even once would give more then enough vital data for GGG to make a better informed decision.

GGG needs to really just re-vamp there definition of crafting to gambling, it is a joke to refer to it as crafting. I feel like going to my local casino to do some crafting...Lol.

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)Increased orb drop rates NOT items.3)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.4) No loot allocation timer(what drops for you is yours alone),No party benefits except for harder monsters.

Is the problem really just that SFL is a true niche of players? I thought GGG wanted niche players. Or is it that SFL players suggest subtly that GGG economy is messed?

cheers

I don't know if this is in response to what I said earlier, Finkenstein, but if you think I'm saying just up orbs drop rates and leave everything else the same then you've missed my point. You can't just increase orb drops alone without messing with the economy that is, according to Chris, the most important aspect of the game to GGG. That's why I am absolutely not suggesting that.

I'm suggesting severing the tie between the crafting and the economy, whether by making orbs no trade so they can serve their crafting purposes, or by some other changes. As long as crafting orbs are the official currency of the game, the crafting system will never realize it's potential. I understand GGG's desire to rethink gold as a currency, but the way they went about it served to gate crafting behind trade and compound the issues self found players face in terms of gear progression. A separate league hides from the real problems rather than try to solve them and in the process runs a very high risk of creating more problems.

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Thaelyn wrote:

I don't know if this is in response to what I said earlier, Finkenstein, but if you think I'm saying just up orbs drop rates and leave everything else the same then you've missed my point. You can't just increase orb drops alone without messing with the economy that is, according to Chris, the most important aspect of the game to GGG. That's why I am absolutely not suggesting that.

I'm suggesting severing the tie between the crafting and the economy, whether by making orbs no trade so they can serve their crafting purposes, or by some other changes. As long as crafting orbs are the official currency of the game, the crafting system will never realize it's potential. I understand GGG's desire to rethink gold as a currency, but the way they went about it served to gate crafting behind trade and compound the issues self found players face in terms of gear progression. A separate league hides from the real problems rather than try to solve them and in the process runs a very high risk of creating more problems.

Hammer
Nail
Head

I'd also add to your penultimate sentence (in bold).

" I understand GGG's desire to rethink gold as a currency, but the way they went about it served to gate crafting and end game behind trade and compound the issues self found players face in terms of gear progression and content access. "

I think the issue I added is greater, too. It just isn't realised as much.

Gear progression is affected, sure, but it is a matter of time and at least that time is spent, because of gear/power issues, actually fighting monsters that pose a threat, which could be seen as satisfactory game play. The amount of time this takes is personal opinion as to whether it's too long or not, finding that balance isn't easy.

However, when it comes to end game content access, it all went a bit tits up. The alternative to trading, for content access, is faceroll MFing lowball content, with the addition of the 'personal opinion appropriate' time investment as present above. This falls far short of satisfactory game play.

I am a lone wolf. I despise player interaction. Give me self found league, will be so cool.

Don't need to create ties in-game to come back to playing game for years and years. Game is so good by myself and by itself.

Only thing that drove me away for 2-3months of game was getting scammed (player interaction) and real life(interacting with real people is even worse).

thanks

What if they made gear account bound once it has been crafted, this would mean the trade would exist of legit drops only to help out a crafter? The only exception to this rule should be a mirror.

And having orbs account bound also sounds very cool, people would have to exualy barter with echother instead of repeating the price that is currently fixed in gold(orbs)

U know trading items vs items? U got a 4link i need to craft with? let me look if i got anything you need?..

Sounds like a dream, but things like this might fix the crafting side of PoE?

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Boem wrote:

What if they made gear account bound once it has been crafted, this would mean the trade would exist of legit drops only to help out a crafter? The only exception to this rule should be a mirror.

The problem with this, at least as you put it in the other thread (increasing orb drops) is that the influx of orbs would still impact the economy if the only change you made was to make raw drops the only gear drops able to be traded. Any increase in drops while orbs are still the principle form of payment in trades will impact the economy.

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And having orbs account bound also sounds very cool, people would have to exualy barter with echother instead of repeating the price that is currently fixed in gold(orbs)

U know trading items vs items? U got a 4link i need to craft with? let me look if i got anything you need?..

Sounds like a dream, but things like this might fix the crafting side of PoE?

Making orbs account bound is an idea that's been tossed around a little bit. I don't think it would ever happen, though, to be honest. I believe I have read a post from GGG somewhere in which they said they were against binding in general. I also doubt it would happen without a full wipe because all of the people who play the game to "be rich" would, justifiably, get extremely pissed if their once great purchasing power were reduced to nothing with the flip of a switch.

I'm not at all sure what the best way would be to unhinge crafting from the economy, but I believe that not doing so will hold the game back. Thus far it seems GGG disagrees with me on that.

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Finkenstein wrote:

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)Increased orb drop rates NOT items.3)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.4) No loot allocation timer(what drops for you is yours alone),No party benefits except for harder monsters.

So, is the idea that you want more pulls at the POE slot machine crafting system than other players who do not wish to have such a restricted playstyle? Shouldn't an improved crafting experience for everyone be the desired outcome?

For self found league, you'd pretty much have to raise drop rates across the board. How much they should raise the drops is a good thing to bring up. They could give everyone a global buff to IIR + IIQ (200 IIR + 100 IIQ), or they could just double or triple the drop rates for blues, rares, uniques and orbs.

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Rhys wrote:

If you're talking about non-consensual PvP, then your analogy doesn't work, because in that case it's impossible to play non-PvP because you can't stop others from attacking you, whereas with self-found, no-one can force you to trade with them. The two scenarios are very different.

If you're not talking about non-consensual PvP, then I don't see what the problem is. I don't see how players having the ability to PvP (if they want) is bad, since it doesn't affect those who aren't interested. I mean, we already have this functionality in the game right now.

From my perspective, those two scenarios don't connect. As in the PvP scenario, it doesn't effect the non-PvPer in any way what-so-ever unless PvP granted substantial rewards that directly affected PvE gameplay(enabling builds, etc).

However, when it comes to self-found, players who choose to play the game this way are doing so in a game that is balanced and tweaked to account for a server-wide economy rather than a personal one. E.I. gear drops, for example, are adapted to suit a wide variety of builds and playstyles.

If you are playing self-found you are very much restricted to playing builds that don't require certain uniques or stacking of a certain stat to work because it's highly unlikely that you will have access to this unless you're prepared to play builds you're not that interested in for a substantial period of time in order to accumulate the essentials of that one build you want to play. I'm not against farming, not at all, but many build enabling items are just way out of reach for any self-found player that can't or don't want to play for 8 hours a day.

As for how you would circumvent this to create a enjoyable league for players who are interested in this sort of thing, I'm not sure if simply increasing drop rates would solve anything as there are many downsides to this. Maybe just making build enabling uniques more accessible would help, but that's far from a universal solution.

For example, Kaoms Heart is a unique that enables certain builds, the problem with this item is that the health it gives is at a set amount which is very high and would be too strong with lower drop-rates for most health-based builds to pass up on. If, however it could roll lower health as well, but still be a descent trade-off(skipping sockets) for players who don't invest as much time in the game and still have that high roll for players who invest more time, those kinds of changes on build enablers for a self-found league might alleviate some of the issues you guys see.

Anyway that's my thoughts and I might be wrong in my assumptions on what other players expect from a self-found league. I know I would enjoy the game so much more if certain build enablers were accessible to me as someone who isn't interested in using every way possible to accumulate wealth in order to buy the items from other players. To be clear: wider rolls on those kinds of items so that more players have access to them, but at varying levels of power. As for builds where stacking of a certain stat(evasion or ES or chaos res etc) means success, I can't think of a solution at this time.

Thanks for reading-

Cheers!

Edit: Just to be certain I'm not misunderstood, I'm not for increasing drop-rates across the board. Giving everyone the possibility to farm end-endgame maps without much effort is not fun for anyone in the long run and only works to exhaust one of the fun parts of the game, farming, very quickly.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Lots of: from the hip, no BS feedback, and finished with...

"how does that concept fit with the motivations in an ARPG?"

Like the style, and agree with the sentiments.