Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

"

obadonke wrote:

"

Qarak wrote:

^
Crafting in low level DOES exist, but it's poor
I've faith that GGG is working on it

What gives you such faith?

I've read all the posts from Qarl in this thread and it appears that he doesn't think the gambling-that-is-called-crafting in PoE has anything to do with self-founder's dissatisfaction with current options.

Increase in drop rates = more rolls of the dice to get a better item that, due to the large number of affixes, is hard to find killing monsters alone.

Disclaimer: if there was a more convenient trading system, I'd use it. I'm not that fussed about playing self-found but I have no intention of organizing my life around the current trading system.

Did you read my post
I'm talking about using the orbs at low level, they suck and are not really useful

"

snapple99 wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Only exchanges between honest players, for mutual benefit, can seriously be considered here.

Oooooooh! Here I thought we were having a real world discussion about real world mechanics in this game. I didn't understand that we were postulating a utopian player base where people on the internet behave honorably. My bad.

If by "behave honorably," you mean enter into a trade with a good attitude and no intention of ripping the other player off, then obviously not. If by "behave honorably" you mean that, after whatever amount of haggling, the final result is a fair deal for both parties, then yes, that's what I mean. It's possible to achieve such a result even with two players who initial intent is to lowball/highball the shit out of each other.

"

snapple99 wrote:

Yeah, by my rough estimate it helps about 100:1 from the buyer's perspective. That is to say I rate it at about 2 orders of magnitude more efficient than farming/crafting.

If you really believe this, you have lost all grip on the reality of the situation.

You wouldn't really be dividing your players, just wouldn't be making sales.

People are leaving because they want something that GGG isn't providing.
I understand the game mechanics can cause an ebb and flow of players (replayability etc) but the self-found league is something we/I would happily pay for (as a funded league).

The current levels of RNG applied really don't cater to a casual player. You're playing slots every time you play. It doesn't reward you for your time.

I could play 3 days and have everything I need, or I could play for 3 years and have nothing, that's the nature of numbers. Some people realise this and don't bother - I don't blame them.

So when they bring out the self-funded league i WILL be paying for one (give or take costs, not wasting my cash). I WILL be increasing drop rates, and i WILL be making it self-found.

I've paid $100 for a product and I'd happily pay more for a casual-friendly mode.

I don't live my life to farm s*** all day. I do it to play around with mechanics and have fun :D

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

If your gear is really so good that you can go days on MF without finding anything useful, I'm willing to bet it's damn hard to find an upgrade, too.

There is a major point you are missing, Scrotie.

Synergy

I'd consider my item wealth not only good for a self found player, but good for any player, but as I've already said, this is through time investment. Time and hoarding.

But when it comes to synergy, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

If I'm levelling a character from scratch, with no item pool in my stash, I need not just to find upgrades, but upgrades that work with the gear I already have.

A pair of boots I find can be hands down better than the ones I have, but not usable. If I was to buy a pair of upgrade boots, I would buy a pair that fit the exact needs.

Search; 25 MS, 83 Life, 22 fire, 40 light. = a pair of usable boots, a direct upgrade, cheap.

I could find some boots with 30 MS, 87 Life, 43 fire, 30 light, 45 cold. = I can't use these.

Using them, could mean I now need to cover the loss of light resistance on other gear.

This is one of the main reasons you will see a lot of pro SFL people want a permanent league and one of the reasons why the further we go, the less desirable a new league is. It's also something that traders miss about self-found, it's a long haul, account wealth, account growth, thing.

The self find player starts weak, remains weak compared to his trader counterparts, but slowly, over thousands of hours, years of play, becomes as strong, if not stronger.

It's the exact opposite of today's instant gratification gamer which is actually what makes the usual 'wanting it easy' comments so ridiculous in these threads.

My item pool is huge, it contains some of the best items on the server, but even with those items, I can seldom use more than 2 or 3 of the best items together, on a character I might have created and levelled. Say If I level a melee marauder, I might have a GG item for every slot, but can't use any more than two of those together, I use lesser items with them. However, if I was to buy just 2 items, to the exact stats I want, I could use my GG items in every other slot.

Conversely, I can look at my pool and see if there is a synergy, I recently realised I have the gear to create what is probably, at least, a top 5 CI phys wander in the whole of PoE.
I made a witch, she's 61 now and just getting to use some of the gear, I'll reveal her soon.

But this wouldn't be possible without that 3000 hours of hoarding, it wouldn't be likely doing it the other way (picking a class/spec and then trying to equip it from my pool) and it certainly isn't going to happen on an account that only has a fraction of the time.

It is, however, very possible to build this character, any character, with perfect synergy, via trading, on that young account.

"

The self find player starts weak, remains weak compared to his trader counterparts, but slowly, over thousands of hours, years of play, becomes as strong, if not stronger.

THIS.

I still have to find the reason of comments like: "SFL? aka simple mode? ololol noobz" While in fact it's a lot harder

Instant gratification - a little patience could be taught to our government and other bodies but we're talking about entertainment here. People seem to forget the idea of a game, skill, fun, not mindlessly bashing your head against a brick wall for thousands of hours.

That said, if they want godly gear handed to them it's a bit weak.
Metrics, I suppose.

"

McNuggetz wrote:

Instant gratification - a little patience could be taught to our government and other bodies but we're talking about entertainment here. People seem to forget the idea of a game, skill, fun, not mindlessly bashing your head against a brick wall for thousands of hours.

That said, if they want godly gear handed to them it's a bit weak.
Metrics, I suppose.

Well, this is the thing. Developers' thoughts on gamers is, to quote Bashiok of Blizz "Obviously everybody wants the best gear possible, as soon as possible". The problem is, it's not true.

Yes, some do, I probably have to concede, sadly, it's the majority now. It doesn't help that this is what new gamers are introduced to and therefore it becomes the norm, the way, it becomes what gaming is. Whatever the ratio of 'instant gratification' versus 'playing for the journey' is, the latter is becoming less and less.

The more games are tuned to one, the less viable the other becomes. It's at the stage now, where viability is hanging on by a thread, the thread of comparatively insane time investment.

I don't like the direction, nor do I think it does gaming any good, long term.

MAKING THE GAME PLAY TO WIN instead of TRADE TO WIN

Hello GGG.

Since every week on reddit a thread like this comes up and gets a lot of attention by the playerbase and little to none attention by GGG i hope that there is a chance WE get heared now.

Basically people understand the concept that you have to play much to get. Everyone is fine with this concept. However there are two types of players, one type of a player are those min/maxers who always try to find the most efficient way to play the game (aka stacking currency and buying gear). and the other player, is the one acutally plays the game "a lot" (whatever a lot for him means) but doesnt want to accept the fact that playing the game is worse than camping tradechat and poe.xyz.is.

The first type of player is 100% fine with the game, since he can hord tons of currency just by camping tradechat an selling stuff. (i got many ppl in my friendlist who have high lvl chars but actually are 90% of the time in lioneyes watch act 1 normal when they are on just to trade (and no they are not afk)).

The second type however, plays the game as much as he can, farms maps,docks,lunaris 3 has already a decent char however has only 10% of the currency of the player 1 who trades all day long. (given the fact that the on keyboard time is the same for both).

So if you wanna satisfy your whole playerbase you have to create a gameconcept where actual playing the game, is nearly as rewarding as trading. otherwise your game wont be played for a long time.


thx danison
(this is from a player with 500+ hours into poe of actual playing who still havent got anything of value and made all his profit from trading some stuff....)

"

Vakirauta wrote:

Well, I can bump this thread.

HELL YA !!

Updated everything until this post.
Thanks again for the continuous discussion!


I would welcome even more actual first hand self-found feedback.
Remember to share your average time spend in-game,
as well as points in-game which were hard to overcome.
It would be really valuable if you could state how long it took to overcome this points.
Tell us about your builds, equipment and so on.
Everything that could matter balancing wise!
Don't forget to mention if you play solo exclusively!

We have a huge amount of good suggestions other than an own SFL gathered
and should have covered pretty much all Pros and Cons of an own SFL by now.
Qarl wants feedback, we shall give it him in the most precise way as possible.