Qarl, at this point the players asking for Self-Found are just doing it because others said it's a good idea and they like feeling righteous, there's very little thought that goes into it.
The reasons why people want a self-found league are valid and I'm sure you guys are working on it, but the actual idea is simply not good enough and has too many downsides.
Don't cave into community pressure on this one, it's mob mentality at this point.
I hope you go back and read my post a page or so back. It basically invalidates 100% of what you are saying here.
If my words aren't good enough than explain to me why the decent race was successful in the last race season. In my opinion Decent gave players an opportunity to manage the resources of the game unhindered by an outside economy. This allowed them to play in a way that forced choices on the best way to consume acquired resources as designed instead of piggy banking them for a future upgrade.
Managing scarce resources to progress was the big draw to this event.
but thats not what people are asking for. they are asking for increased drop rates for everything to make the game easier. This entire crusade has always been about making the game easier and nothing else. no one is asking for a permanent decent type league they are asking for the same game as Standard except increased drop rates and no trading. People may try and hide that by throwing out whatever bullshit they can think of but the bottom line is the Self Found People are asking for easy mode. Quarl is right in everything he said your all just to proud and stubborn to admit it.
Last edited by derbefrier#6652 on Aug 28, 2013, 12:23:29 PM
Qarl, at this point the players asking for Self-Found are just doing it because others said it's a good idea and they like feeling righteous, there's very little thought that goes into it.
The reasons why people want a self-found league are valid and I'm sure you guys are working on it, but the actual idea is simply not good enough and has too many downsides.
Don't cave into community pressure on this one, it's mob mentality at this point.
I hope you go back and read my post a page or so back. It basically invalidates 100% of what you are saying here.
If my words aren't good enough than explain to me why the decent race was successful in the last race season. In my opinion Decent gave players an opportunity to manage the resources of the game unhindered by an outside economy. This allowed them to play in a way that forced choices on the best way to consume acquired resources as designed instead of piggy banking them for a future upgrade.
Managing scarce resources to progress was the big draw to this event.
but thats not what people are asking for. they are asking for increased drop rates for everything to make the game easier. This entire crusade has always been about making the game easier and nothing else. People may try and hide that by throwing out whatever bullshit they can think of but the bottom line is the Self Found People aren't asking for a permanent decent type league they are asking for easy mode. Quarl is right in everything he said your all just to proud to admit it.
If it's a widespread sentiment, it's probably a legitimate concern. Judging by the amount of support and posts about SFL, it seems legitimate enough. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I can (and do) agree with some of it.
That is an interesting concept I hadn't seen posted elsewhere.
THen let me be the first to spell it out for you. I HAVE said this... as did many others on that thread which you apparently didn't read or didn't understand.
There is a reason I call the economic simulator PvP. Surely you're smart enough to understand why. That makes POE a "mandatory PvP" game in my mind. All of that is another way to say "trappings of competition".
I don't want to compete with other players. I don't give a rats ass about ladders. I don't like anything that GGG would call "player tension" and I call "PvP". My builds tend to be custom to suit my own play styles and needs and seldom min/max anything. I'll never have the biggest DPS numbers nor do I care. All I want to do is fire up the game on my own time and go farm for some gear and actually GET a gear upgrade (yes, stay focused on 4 & 5 links please... don't get lost in your BiS L2P noob meanderings).
It may help you to understand why I see it as so broken. Rightly or wrongly, in my head I'd be looking at about 400 each of jewelers, chromatics, and fuses to 4 link something and maybe 1500 of each to 5 link it. Those numbers ought to get me to some confidence interval like 95% meaning I might actually "win" at a crafting attempt rather than simply throwing my orbs away in a futile act of desperation. So in your head, factor out crafting entirely then consider what gear drops look like.
Now remember that the standard advice on these boards to new players is "don't craft... ever... until you are crafting absolutely end-game BiS stuff".
I don't trade. I don't group. My comments reflect that.
but thats not what people are asking for. they are asking for increased drop rates for everything to make the game easier. This entire crusade has always been about making the game easier and nothing else. no one is asking for a permanent decent type league they are asking for the same game as Standard except increased drop rates and no trading. People may try and hide that by throwing out whatever bullshit they can think of but the bottom line is the Self Found People are asking for easy mode. Quarl is right in everything he said your all just to proud and stubborn to admit it.
I actually agree here. Let's not beat around the bush. The reason people ask for "self-found league" basically means "increase our drop rates/chances for success on crafting."
Ok - so maybe there's like 1 person out there who isn't actually asking that - but the vast majority are. Anyone who is honest would admit it as fact.
Well the point is this ultimately comes down to what you find acceptable, preference. I'm not going to try and force my views on that particular issue on anyone. If it makes the game genuinely suck for people, they probably have a case.
I thought I'd also note, when I see part of the problem is a perception that people feel they need what the most time invested players have, I am not saying "you are all just entitled". I am saying, this is an actual problem we have, and we want to find out why we have this signalling issue.
Chase items, and godly gear and perfect mods are excellent things for keeping those players interested in the game, and giving them something to do. But we also want to have other players happy to continue for better gear without feeling like they are missing out at some core level.
And while we want a solution that works for players, we don't want to, say, add 5 hours of play to a player who was only going to play for 20 hours, in exchange for all of our 1000+ hour players, then it is not a very good solution for us.
-Casual player joins party.
-Casual player struggles killing few guys.
-Some lottery winner runs by shitting on everything as if he was sent from heaven to wreck havoc on wraeclast.
-Casual player feels inadequate.
-Even if casual player doesnt initially care.. he will still realize said player is having more fun than him.
-Casual player cant play builds he wants to try because of certain gear enabling uniques being to far out of his reach.
-Casual player quits or RMT's
Make build enabling Uniques common or implement uniques that do the same thing.
just a few...
Shavs
Voltaxic
Bringer of Rain
Nerf them to make them not so OP.
Give players some type of reward for time played and not a log in to play the lottery.
No one wants everything handed to them (granted some do) they just want to have as much fun as everyone else.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." - Edgar Allan Poe
IGN: DarkenedSoui
but thats not what people are asking for. they are asking for increased drop rates for everything to make the game easier. This entire crusade has always been about making the game easier and nothing else. no one is asking for a permanent decent type league they are asking for the same game as Standard except increased drop rates and no trading. People may try and hide that by throwing out whatever bullshit they can think of but the bottom line is the Self Found People are asking for easy mode. Quarl is right in everything he said your all just to proud and stubborn to admit it.
I thought I'd also note, when I see part of the problem is a perception that people feel they need what the most time invested players have, I am not saying "you are all just entitled". I am saying, this is an actual problem we have, and we want to find out why we have this signalling issue.
Chase items, and godly gear and perfect mods are excellent things for keeping those players interested in the game, and giving them something to do. But we also want to have other players happy to continue for better gear without feeling like they are missing out at some core level.
And while we want a solution that works for players, we don't want to, say, add 5 hours of play to a player who was only going to play for 20 hours, in exchange for all of our 1000+ hour players, then it is not a very good solution for us.
Hi, Qarl.
I play solo self found, I don't want what other people have, I don't care what other people have, I don't compete, I don't care about competition.
I in fact like playing self found in the leagues as they are, because it suits the amount of time I am willing to invest. I see the 'buy anything and everything' model as too easy, instant gratification, anything but hardcore. I can therefore create my own challenging, hardcore game, within this quick fix model and for the most part, it works.
I have no issues with gear, I RELISH being starved of gear and needing to prioritise, sacrifice, balance as best I can with what is available. I can do this, in PoE, because I am a no-lifer. You refer to your 1000+ hour players, check my account, I think you'll find I'm a 3000 hour player.
I will say, though, that I can fully sympathise with those that want to play self found but don't have the ridiculous amounts of time that I have.
Now to the issue, that I have.
Your end game, is a currency sink.
Your end game is designed to take currency from those who trade heavily.
I don't need a currency sink, I sink whatever I get within minutes. Be it on maps or on crafting. I don't have access to challenging content, to attempt challenging content, I have to faceroll lowball content at the ratio of about 50:1. Where 50 is faceroll farming and 1 is ATTEMPTING to access challenging content. Even then, that 1 may or may not provide progress and challenge.
I can solo any boss in game, my gear, because of 3000 hours farming, is top end gear. I do silly map mod combinations, if only I get the chance, but I seldom do.
Shrine Piety? Magaera? Pffft.
Minus max, double reflect, extra damage? So fuck.
But instead, I'm MFing in Lunaris.
Your map system, your content system, your access, your sinks, are messed up.
People who spend all day swelling their wealth and not caring for content are not being hit.
People who sink their own currency, any way, are being hit when they don't need it.
There are balancing concerns for self-found players which Qarl did indeed acknowledged.
It seems that there are balancing concerns present when it comes to the current crafting system.
(Usual Trade vs. Craft concerns)
I however doubt that GGG can undertake testing different currency droprates
on the default servers without possibly harming any economy. Hence the suggestions.
I would love GGG to make crafting more attractive compared to trading items.
Also talking about low-mid-level experience here, which I only have.
Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Aug 28, 2013, 12:42:59 PM
I don't want any new leagues, and I am not a "self-found" player; but I want to add something here about 6L and the like. To me, the main draw of any RPG over the last 15 years or more has been character progression (on all fronts, leveling, gear, etc, which of course is dependent upon the particular game). I do not think "oh a 6L is just a luxury, I don't need one". I think, "I am damn sure not content with my 6S5L, and I never will be". Why else would I continue playing then?
The difference for me is that I will grind and grind, and whine and whine, until I get my damn 6L. I will then praise GGG for their super fair and accessible game, only once I have gotten it. It may take a long time, and I may rage quit in between, but my RPG fanaticism will always kick back .
Current IGN: TheBearerOfLight
Gizoogle Chris: "Da State of Exile muthafuckas axed mah crazy ass ta post a reminder dat they podcast is dis weekend, as usual. It aint nuthin but tha nick nack patty wack, I still gots tha bigger sack."
Last edited by BoltThrower87#3044 on Aug 28, 2013, 1:16:40 PM
I however doubt that GGG can undertake testing different currency droprates
on the default servers without possibly harming any economy. Hence the suggestions.
I would love GGG to make crafting more attractive compared to trading items.
Also talking about low-level experience here, which I only have.
The last bit is going to be pretty impossible without taxing trading (assuming current, trade enabled leagues) or inducing incredible saturation.
It does point out though that you want crafting to at least, approach trading, which is fine because what you enjoy is entirely subjective. Obviously this won't sit too well in a game with such immense consideration for economy. People have to try and be moderate, but I realize it is a very tricky issue since many people will simply not accept compromise either way.
People on the one side seemingly don't want to accept (at least, to a fair extent) that it (SFL) can actually affect the game and existing leagues negatively and people on the other side are entirely opposed to that prospect, justifiably or not. It's pretty hard to say.
It's true that people who are unlucky, and people who don't have many hours to play, will likely not achieve everything they wish to achieve in the game. There is no doubting the roughness, if you will, of this fact. But ultimately the benefits of the system seem to come with these necessary downsides. It also doesn't hurt that the game is free to play. At least you didn't have to purchase the game before trying it. That may be a non-sequitur to some people, but I think it is relevant.
Current IGN: TheBearerOfLight
Gizoogle Chris: "Da State of Exile muthafuckas axed mah crazy ass ta post a reminder dat they podcast is dis weekend, as usual. It aint nuthin but tha nick nack patty wack, I still gots tha bigger sack."
Last edited by BoltThrower87#3044 on Aug 28, 2013, 1:19:09 PM
Qarl, at this point the players asking for Self-Found are just doing it because others said it's a good idea and they like feeling righteous, there's very little thought that goes into it.
The reasons why people want a self-found league are valid and I'm sure you guys are working on it, but the actual idea is simply not good enough and has too many downsides.
Don't cave into community pressure on this one, it's mob mentality at this point.
I hope you go back and read my post a page or so back. It basically invalidates 100% of what you are saying here.
If my words aren't good enough than explain to me why the decent race was successful in the last race season. In my opinion Decent gave players an opportunity to manage the resources of the game unhindered by an outside economy. This allowed them to play in a way that forced choices on the best way to consume acquired resources as designed instead of piggy banking them for a future upgrade.
Managing scarce resources to progress was the big draw to this event.
but thats not what people are asking for. they are asking for increased drop rates for everything to make the game easier. This entire crusade has always been about making the game easier and nothing else. no one is asking for a permanent decent type league they are asking for the same game as Standard except increased drop rates and no trading. People may try and hide that by throwing out whatever bullshit they can think of but the bottom line is the Self Found People are asking for easy mode. Quarl is right in everything he said your all just to proud and stubborn to admit it.
That may be what some people are asking for however, that is not what i'm asking for. I would be happy with no changes other than strictly self-found. If there is a huge discrepancy in balance and drop rates I would expect GGG to address it as needed just like they do every other problem that occurs.
I dont want an easier game, I want a game minus an economy
IGN: Fourist
Last edited by Fourist#2774 on Aug 28, 2013, 1:15:35 PM
