Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Novalisk wrote:

Qarl, at this point the players asking for Self-Found are just doing it because others said it's a good idea and they like feeling righteous, there's very little thought that goes into it.

The reasons why people want a self-found league are valid and I'm sure you guys are working on it, but the actual idea is simply not good enough and has too many downsides.

Don't cave into community pressure on this one, it's mob mentality at this point.

Yes Qarl we are all mindless zombies and the case is clearly mob mentality.

Only Novalisk who is apparently some what related to Einstein is correct and GGG should do what he says.

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ignarsoll wrote:

Yes Qarl we are all mindless zombies and the case is clearly mob mentality.

Only Novalisk who is apparently some what related to Einstein is correct and GGG should do what he says.

lol

BTW a test league shouldn't cost much.
Is it populated? Cool, let's keep it.
Is it shit? Let's remove it, nothing happened and no one will remember this.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

[ScrotieWalls]

I somehow got the feel that you and Qarl are on an equal footing and therefore did not include your balancing request into the other suggestions. If someone or you however feel that something important in there is said, which Qarl did not relate to, then hit me up and I will add it to the 4th post immediately.

Make gems buyable from NPC VENDORS! Maybe you would first have to "unlock" them through normal quest-rewards.
After the first playthrough you will be forced to buy gems from greedy traders. This is annoying, takes time away from really playing the game and takes away currency from poor players - rich players can buy what they want - reduced mana 20% np.

I´m really upset about the current system. Add a tab "Gems" to Nessa & co and i ll be happy.
The current system limits build diversity for self-found players who only trade with npc vendors.
The 4-link drama can be reduced by increasing chances for fusings to 4-link 4-socket gear. So 2-3 fuses and you would be done - add some entropy maybe. This also would benefit the "poor" players since rich players aiming for 6-linking-game.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You're somehow missing your own point. They are able to actually set and work towards goals in this game. They are able to leverage the creative possibilities of this game to the fullest. So which of these seems more likely to you:

1) They are the same human beings you are, and anything they can do, you can do too.
2) Ancient aliens.
3) Funded by one-world government conspiracy.

You don't need a self-found league to be like a streamer. Just do the things they do. They have Twitch channels; just watch them for a bit and copy their notes.

You're misrepresenting me, I think -- I don't want to be a streamer, or to compete with streamers. In fact, I wasn't making any demand or voicing any aspiration (except my disapproval of exemplifying a build-enabler as a chase rare).

My point is not that streamers are being actively envied for their wealth, but that outside of adopting a similar play style, the self-found-suggesting player profile (who is more often than not married to the "the solo player" and the "limited free time" player profiles) simply does not perceive a sense of similar reward or player agency. You, Qarl and others may disagree with the implications of this (which usually translates to a suggestion of a league with increased currency drops, yes), of course, but my intent was to stress that this should not be simply equated to "streamer envy". This perception would continue to exist without twitch.tv streams.

But even if I were voicing such aspiration, "do as they do" is not constructive in a thread about self-found, when that suggestion clearly involves social networking and trading. That particular tone is rather unimpressive, even though you appear to be fond of it.

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ohnono wrote:

Make gems buyable from NPC VENDORS!

what's about uniques and good rares? they are build enablers as well.

the idea behind you getting forced to find gems and uniques and good gear while playing is to encourage you starting new builds based on the new items.

this works especially well for me.

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Qarl wrote:

I can give my current thoughts on self found.

And let me for one say a big "Thank you" for at least commenting on this. Your comment, in fact, changes my impression of how GGG sees this game.

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Can you play through self found? Currently there are issues with this, especially around the 40s. One of the main problems here is the availability of 4-linked items. Gear progression gets hard here, as replacement gear requires both beating existing gear in stats, and in skill support. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full skill sets, and can skimp on stats and still progress quickly.

This was exactly my first gear check. In my case I struggled more with inadequate ES than with inadequate links but the two are obviously related. Had I not seen crafting as ludicrous I might have been able to link up some otherwise not bad rare.

I'd encourage you to look at 5 link also for exactly the same reasons. 6 link seems more like a bragging rights thing so I'm content with that being insanely difficult.

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The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-found play.

Perhaps... this comes up a lot and it's another way to say "learn to play noob". I can tell you that my personal experience/concerns/dismay have nothing to do with anything resembling BiS anything.

If you keep telling yourself this little lie (that all of your players are little children who expect instant gratification) you will use it as a crutch and avoid actually looking at the problems. Your fans seem to have the "L2P noob" line covered on your behalf.

I changed the title "Devs Thoughts" in the 4th post to "Qarl's Thoughts"
to reflect that they should not be taken as GGGs collective stance concerning the topic.

If I hear otherwise from up above, I will change it accordingly.
Until then I apply the Russel'ian Law.

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Novalisk wrote:

Qarl, at this point the players asking for Self-Found are just doing it because others said it's a good idea and they like feeling righteous, there's very little thought that goes into it.

The reasons why people want a self-found league are valid and I'm sure you guys are working on it, but the actual idea is simply not good enough and has too many downsides.

Don't cave into community pressure on this one, it's mob mentality at this point.

I hope you go back and read my post a page or so back. It basically invalidates 100% of what you are saying here.

If my words aren't good enough than explain to me why the Descent race was successful in the last race season. In my opinion Descent gave players an opportunity to manage the resources of the game unhindered by an outside economy. This allowed them to play in a way that forced choices on the best way to consume acquired resources as designed instead of piggy banking them for a future upgrade.

Managing scarce resources to progress was the big draw to this event.