Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Why do you care if a few thousand of us want to play in a different way.

It's not about wanting, it's about doing. Given 3 million accounts currently, I estimate far more than a thousand would join such a league. Keep in mind that once you say "increased drop rates" you're going to get a lot of players looking to exploit such an advantage. If the droprate increases are very high, it could even have some very strong temporary appeal, virtually deserting the current leagues, until they find out that the lack of trading is a bigger disadvantage than first thought.

More importantly, though, it dooms both leagues to extremes rather than a reasonable compromise. If you have an X league and a non-X league, players who have valid concerns about X play will be dismissed with "go play non-X league," and players who have valid concerns about non-X will be dismissed with "go play X league." While I feel this is sometimes exactly the right answer to give players — such as for questions like "when will the economy be wiped?" and "will legacy uniques exist?" — it's not the right answer for all situations.

Some interesting points. I'm not really sure how to gauge the actual demand for SFL. Perhaps at some point after release GGG will let us know how many "active players" are on during peak times. (3 million accounts doesn't really say much imo)

To address some of your points, I'm not really sure how you can "exploit" increased drops in SFL, since you cannot do anything with those drops except enjoy them yourself. (unless we are going back to the RMT of whole accounts thing)

Secondly to your point about hurting both leagues, I'm not sure I agree. Quite frankly having 100,000 players split into two 50,000 leagues is better business wise than having 30,000+ players leave because they are not happy with the 100,000 player single league. Many players won't just keep playing something they are annoyed with, or isn't satisfying. They will move on to something that fits their interest.

Thanks to Nightmare90 for all his work keeping this updated, and to the devs for actually listening and discussing this with us <3

As for me, self found IS about competition. Bragging about reaching lvl100 has no value. Bragging about reaching lvl100 on hardcore has value.

Bragging rights for reaching lvl100 hardcore self found league? Legendary.

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brgillespie wrote:

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defektiv wrote:

But you want to know what's even more sad? After giving up the dream of gearing any of my freeze pulsers, after giving up on one of them ever being CI and fully respeccing, after giving up on self found since late last year, the first 67 map I do with a friend and he gets a chain chest with more ES on it than any chest I've ever seen drop. It just feels like getting kicked while you're down.

How would a SFL solve your dissatisfaction?

Or are you arguing not for a SGL, but for an increased drop rate overall?

It was a subset of the conversation back around page 120-121 in reference to Qarl's original post. And then a response on the top of page 122 in which someone quoted Chris. The relationship to the discussion is the parallel Qarl drew between the desire for OP to want a SFL and a feeling of entitlement because this obviously means anyone that wants it is jealous of the elite gamers and all the hard work they put into trading (and certainly NOT the RMT they talk about openly on stream). Paraphrasing of course but to quote all that at this point is too much of a challenge for a non-forum warrior like myself.

My point originally was to illustrate through my own play experience that even if you take those elite gamers out of the equation, a SF person can very easily never see the drops they need to progress with the build they are playing. How they could fix that without causing those elite players to feel bored and/or flood the market with items, I don't know. But a SFL might illustrate the divide (if it exists) between gearing using all available resources and gearing using only what you get dropped. Because unless I'm just the most unlucky person in the world, playing self found only will have you playing vanilla content when they're getting ready to release Act 5. And I mean honestly self found and none of that crap we see a streamer do where they fire up their stream and OMG look what just happened to drop after they stopped streaming last night!

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mcadamry wrote:

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ToxicRatt wrote:

I will weigh in again...


SFL = Death of RMT

CW =/= SFL

CW = RMT?





Not really of course but SFL kills RMT. The only possible downside to SFL is more fractured base which is already gractured. Make SFL parent Void League so nothing happening in SFL would affect any other part of the game.

How is RMT affecting you in any way?

Oh, right... you get your panties in a bunch whenever someone else is better than you. Why can't you just keep your head down and play?

You're a jealous creature, and it stinks.
It's putrid.

Just had to drop in and answer this stupid post.

RMT affects every single person. Every account is at risk of being hacked, whether you want to argue that an account is 100% safe if the owner is 100% savvy, or not. The fact remains that any account can be lost because of the trade value in items that it holds.

If that item trade value was non-existent, the threat is completely removed, or at the very least, hugely lessened.

Stupid fucking post, made without thinking any other line of thought than finding a way to insult.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

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Veta321 wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Self found leagues isn't really what I want... I want a client based solo game. Getting rid of the online requirement would go a long way to making the game more enjoyable.

They could put an offline mode in the store. Putting things client side might be a problem for hacker snooping; naturally your offline characters couldn't play online.

Why would a solo player care what some mythical hacker does?

The concern is more hackers learning how to better break the game online later.

i play self-found. completely. I have never traded anything. I have thought about it, but finding people and stuff is a waste of time. Mainly because, I do not interact with other people most of the time.

regardless, I do not need a league.

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MeBugULongTime wrote:

i play self-found. completely. I have never traded anything. I have thought about it, but finding people and stuff is a waste of time. Mainly because, I do not interact with other people most of the time.

regardless, I do not need a league.

You are missing the point on what the dedicated league accomplishes.

Your example, like many have said before, is compared to saying Hardcore isn't needed. Just play standard and delete your character if they die. It is not the same thing.

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MeBugULongTime wrote:

i play self-found. completely. I have never traded anything. I have thought about it, but finding people and stuff is a waste of time. Mainly because, I do not interact with other people most of the time.

regardless, I do not need a league.

We don't need a Hardcore and Softcore league then. Slap a deaths count by characters on the ladder and allow sorting by deaths.

I don't play solo. I'd like to play SFL with parties. Socially. Suggesting I can avoid trading by not trading is ridiculous. Any public party I join would include players who've traded, which I am measured against.

Scrotie:
You are right, understanding the underlying pressures to trade is important in understanding why players want SFL I'll save us all some time, trading presents opportunities more viable than actually playing the game. That alone is why I'm for SFL. I'd also like non-end game crafting to be viable and that is more possible under a SFL ruleset than not. See my earlier post.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Your example, like many have said before, is compared to saying Hardcore isn't needed. Just play standard and delete your character if they die. It is not the same thing.

No, it's not. If someone else dies in Hardcore, they aren't around to trade with other people, even if they are dishonorable and refuse to delete themselves properly. One of the main draws of hardcore is precisely this feature: deaths serve as an item sink for gear, even really really good gear, which prevents inflation. SFL has no equivalent where it needs to enforce its rules, not on the player precisely, but on other players.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Your example, like many have said before, is compared to saying Hardcore isn't needed. Just play standard and delete your character if they die. It is not the same thing.

No, it's not. If someone else dies in Hardcore, they aren't around to trade with other people, even if they are dishonorable and refuse to delete themselves properly. One of the main draws of hardcore is precisely this feature: deaths serve as an item sink for gear, even really really good gear, which prevents inflation. SFL has no equivalent where it needs to enforce its rules, not on the player precisely, but on other players.

I agree with the economic effects of the Hardcore league. I was speaking about the ability to just say go ahead and play self-found in either league if you want.

You know as well as I do, the intended experience of SFL need to be balanced with compared to the multiplayer experiences in the existing leagues.