Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]
" Reported for RMT botter :) Crafting doesn't exist in POE. Gambling does...and the house always wins.
Velocireptile - I LOL'ed. Which made me fart. I wish the office were empty right now :( Hardlicker - I had to push the dog out of the way so I could get to the sexy quilt. |
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" If GGG doesn't like RMT then it is clearly an issue. Crafting doesn't exist in POE. Gambling does...and the house always wins.
Velocireptile - I LOL'ed. Which made me fart. I wish the office were empty right now :( Hardlicker - I had to push the dog out of the way so I could get to the sexy quilt. |
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" Grow up. GGG doesn't like RMT because it cuts into their profits. Who do you think sells the items so cheaply on those RMT sites? Didn't you learn from Blizzard and D2? They print the items and sell them, and then swear that they don't. RMT is crusaded against because they can't be having botters selling items cheaper than they are. Geeze, don't you know anything about how people in power work? If they really were innocent, defeating RMT would be as easy as setting up a couple fake websites, putting them up on google and selling orbs + gear for pennies, getting a decent customer base and then banning all accounts and IP's who came to shop. RMT over. But trust me, this will never happen. Believe what you want. |
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"LOL, as if IP bans would do a damn thing. But I digress. From now on, you are on citizen hellban. No one else in this thread is to reply to your posts or acknowledge your existence from here on. I do not want anyone wasting time trying to talk you out of your tinfoil-hat insanity, because frankly it wouldn't work anyway; you seem pretty stubborn about it. So let's just not waste the time and ignore you. Completely.
My on-topic post from the previous page
"The biggest downside is that it fails to properly identify the core problem, and thus fails to identify the proper solution. Don't get me wrong here: there are a lot of you. Something has irritated all of you. There is a problem. It's just that it's not properly identified. So, what is it? It can't be only that trading is distasteful. If that was the only problem, you'd simply opt not to use it. So that's not it. It can't be that trading is overpowered. Trading follows the Law of Conservation of Loot — although one player might profit, the global profit of all players added together is zero. So that's not it. What is it, then? That the game is pushing you to trade. It might not be OP to trade, but it is an expected function. Saying "vendoring is OP" is ludicrous, but it's no stretch to say it's required, and a similar argument could be made about trading. So then ask yourself: what pushes players to trade? What mechanic transforms this from a truly optional behavior, into an expected one? While you're at it, ask yourself if removing the ability to perform an action (trading, in this case), without removing the push — the mechanic in the game which causes that behavior to be expected — is really a good thing, or sealing up the one valve that was used to relieve all that pressure which was building up, and thus making the situation even worse. If, for some reason, we aimed to remove the pressure on players to vendor items, would the answer be simply to remove the vendors and replace it with nothing, or just say "fuck it" and increase drop rates in compensation? Would that really make the game better? When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 13, 2013, 10:40:50 AM
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" What on earth are you even talking about?? I'm stubborn about what? Tin-foil hat? Dude, you also need to grow up and educate yourself. The way the world works is: Where there's money to made, it is. Hands-down, no exceptions. Now, that being said, I should have stated that it was all an assumption (and a safe one at that), and all IN MY OPINION. I was also drifting a bit off-topic, so I was also in the wrong in that regard. However, nothing prompted your response. It was defaming and uncalled for. You poke fun and try to embarrass me with jokes? Check your character dude. |
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Spoiler
" Scrotie: Back on topic :) I won't disagree that there might be a larger problem, but I cannot see how giving players a choice can be seen as a bad thing. If you don't like or want SFL don't play in it. Right now I don't have that option at all. The problem itself is systemic. As of now in order to really progress, you have to use the trading function.(mostly due to the harshness of RNG and drop rates) This is very similar to the problem that D3 had/has. Ultimately the game drives you to purchase gear, because it isn't feasible to find what you need. In D3 this was magnified by the auction house. In PoE it is less apparent, but the concept is the same. In order to get the best gear you have to power broker wealth. I have played over 1500 hours and never found most of the best items in the game. Have I owned most of those items? Yep. How? I had to spend countless hours trading to acquire funds to purchase gear I couldn't find(Including trade chat/forum posts/POE.xyz ectt). It takes away from the point of this game. I want to kill monsters and FIND the gear for my characters. I want to EARN my gear. I don't want to play the economy mini-game and purchase it from someone else. My solution to this? Eliminate the mini-game(for SFL). Let us play the game for its merits. I personally think the economy hurts the real amazing parts of this game. However I'm not so arrogant to believe that everyone wants to play like me. I'm sure many enjoy profiting with RMT. I'm sure many people love the economy mini-game. I get that others love the trading and brokering. I don't want to change your experience, I don't want to put my gameplay preference above yours. I JUST WANT A CHOICE. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Oct 13, 2013, 11:23:00 AM
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My personal opinion why SFL attracts so many viewers. For u scrottie a selfless analysis, but i'm sure you will burn it.
Spoiler
In my personal opinion there is a mental issue with the progression in this game, at it's current state the item progression takes a lift-off until the end of "normal", the pace at which u find usable upgrades is very rapid and brings forth a fun and speedy gaming experience which could be named "satisfying". However then u enter the next difficulty, at this point links become important for the progression, both in build deployment and in enjoyment linked with the ability to utilize the intended skill combo's. And here the "satisfying" character of the game pace is lost. This is partially because of the lack of decent upgrades and the pace at which they can be acquired. (this in contrast with the normal experience puts a dumper on the experience) Not only doe's the pace at witch upgrades are acquired slows down, but they become exponentially hard to find, mostly because at this point u require a combination of factors to align for an upgrade to present itself. (links + item stats, instead of items stats alone) This problem then gets even worse because of the RNG factor in linking even the simplest of pieces.(let alone the mental factor that comes with "wasting" currency on low lvl items) I think it are these subtle changes in the game that are very punishing on a player, and can create a need for a "SF-league", not so much because they wish to play self-found, but more because they want to enjoy the experience of smooth upgrades, and the fun that comes with finding these in a reasonable amount of time. I must state that i don't mean BIS gear with this, but something as simple as +20 resis can give a player a satisfying feeling. Instead atm, the player gets to look at the 20+ resis, but because of a lack of link's in the item has to sell it, ore is unable to utilize this item. This result's in the opposite feeling, a feeling of let-down. I think a reasonable change to aquire 4-links should be implemented. (and im pretty sure they are working on this, like mentioned in this thread, GGG is aware of this issue and the result of it) But on top of this, and this is my personal suggestion to this problem, a way should be implemented to "align" a piece of gear with a certain general stat. Meaning STR/DEX/INT, what i mean by this is that there should be a way to align an armor with the STR stat, allowing for a higher chance to roll life on it. Maybe a way to sell an alch + a gem to convert the alch to a "aligned alch". However these aligned alch's should come with a downside, like they cant roll stats higher then Ilvl 55 ore something. This would ensure that endgame is stil a total grind, but that the progression to this endgame becomes a truly fun ride where RNG can be controlled somewhat. I think everybody can agree that u wont go into endgame with aligned gear with Ilvl 55 mods? Well that was quite a wall, let it rip scrottie, looking forward to see my wall destroyed. tl;dr early item progression is to great resulting in a let-down when entering higher difficulty's. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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"This is as it should be, especially since it's obvious you're talking about powerful end-game uniques. Although there should be some consistency in gear progression, it should take you an amazingly long time to reach the very height of good gear. The trick, from a design standpoint, is to make the journey last as long as humanly possible, while avoiding the feeling that the journey has come to a halt. "Like it or not, creating a new league (or leagues) is changing the experience for everyone. Players migrate from the old leagues to the new one(s), which means there are less players to party with, less players available for trading at any given time, less items for trade overall. The more appealing the new league is, the stronger this effect is; the less appealing the new league is, the more pointless it is to create it in the first place, so you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Because creating new leagues always has a cost, it's important for GGG to only add new leagues if it provides powerful new choices for players. If it really was true that removing trading would solve the issues, this cost might be justifiable; however, it wouldn't, because the real issues run deeper. Without actually dealing with the forces which push players to trade, SFL would not be a league where people don't want to trade; it would be a league where players would still desperately want to trade, still are pushed by the game mechanics into trading... but then hit a brick wall, because trading is disabled. It solves nothing, but might bribe some people into playing it anyway, because, hey, increased drop rates! The real solution is one I have explained in detail in previous posts: increase orb drop rates, decrease gear drop rates. There is no need to create new leagues for this; simply apply the changes to all leagues. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 13, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
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So its intended that self-found players will rarely be able to keep pace with the game content in order that the elite gamers can be rewarded for their extra efforts in trading. Got it.. sadly.
But you want to know what's even more sad? After giving up the dream of gearing any of my freeze pulsers, after giving up on one of them ever being CI and fully respeccing, after giving up on self found since late last year, the first 67 map I do with a friend and he gets a chain chest with more ES on it than any chest I've ever seen drop. It just feels like getting kicked while you're down. He's an awesome guy and gave me the chest but its the idea that I would have never have been able to gear any of the characters or builds that I truly wanted to in almost a year if I had stuck to only self found. Last edited by defektiv#6127 on Oct 13, 2013, 12:07:28 PM
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" I don't agree with this at all. SFL supporters don't want to trade, they want to find their own gear.(hence self-found). In the end players will play in the leagues they enjoy the most, and that isn't bad for anyone. To say that its good for players to play in a league they don't really want to play in, just so the original league has a larger player base is inherently flawed. You just lose player retention, which hurts GGG even more. The economy problem, and it is a problem, is just going to get worse. With enhanced PvP coming out, the emphasis on gear is just going to increase. And as the demand increases so too does the price. The side effect will be more RMT, more Flipping, and a more divergent wealth gap. Already you have certain players, which I won't name, who have power-brokered the best items, or used incredible wealth to craft amazing items, which they now charge to mirror and amass more wealth. If you can't see the problem going forward then you just don't want to see it. I pity new players. SFL does so many positive things. It eliminates RMT. It eliminates wealth as the driving force to the game. You don't have to spend extra time trading, you can actually play the game. If you decided to PvP in SFL at least you know your opposition didn't purchase his items, or get it from his power-broker friend. Sure maybe he played more hours than you, but you could live with that. You want to know why D2 ladder resets were so popular? Everyone was on the same page for awhile. Imagine if this was a permanent solution? Imagine a league where if a Kaom's dropped, you might think, hmm maybe I'll roll a BM life build, instead of "holy shit I'm rich". "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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