Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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DarthSki44 wrote:

SFL does so many positive things. It eliminates RMT. It eliminates wealth as the driving force to the game. You don't have to spend extra time trading, you can actually play the game. If you decided to PvP in SFL at least you know your opposition didn't purchase his items, or get it from his power-broker friend. Sure maybe he played more hours than you, but you could live with that.

It does none of these things.

Accounts can be bought and sold.

Wealth will always be the driving force in this game. This, like every other ARPG ever, is a game where you wear your wealth while using the wealth in your hand to bash in the skulls of your enemies.

Players currently do not have to spend extra time trading; they decide to, because a part of the game encourages them to. Removing trading prevents them from spending the time, but does not remove the push. (I've said this many times, and it's getting old.)

As I said before, accounts could be bought and sold, so you wouldn't know that your PvP opponent didn't purchase his items.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Spoiler

I don't agree with this at all. SFL supporters don't want to trade, they want to find their own gear.(hence self-found). In the end players will play in the leagues they enjoy the most, and that isn't bad for anyone. To say that its good for players to play in a league they don't really want to play in, just so the original league has a larger player base is inherently flawed. You just lose player retention, which hurts GGG even more.

The economy problem, and it is a problem, is just going to get worse. With enhanced PvP coming out, the emphasis on gear is just going to increase. And as the demand increases so too does the price. The side effect will be more RMT, more Flipping, and a more divergent wealth gap. Already you have certain players, which I won't name, who have power-brokered the best items, or used incredible wealth to craft amazing items, which they now charge to mirror and amass more wealth. If you can't see the problem going forward then you just don't want to see it. I pity new players.

SFL does so many positive things. It eliminates RMT. It eliminates wealth as the driving force to the game. You don't have to spend extra time trading, you can actually play the game. If you decided to PvP in SFL at least you know your opposition didn't purchase his items, or get it from his power-broker friend. Sure maybe he played more hours than you, but you could live with that.

You want to know why D2 ladder resets were so popular? Everyone was on the same page for awhile. Imagine if this was a permanent solution?

Imagine a league where if a Kaom's dropped, you might think, hmm maybe I'll roll a BM life build, instead of "holy shit I'm rich".

Bringing up PVP as a reason to create a SFL is a flawed argument. If you'd think that would solve the "problem", you're wrong. Imagine a league where you can't trade for items, and are completely reliant upon crafting/RNGing your own gear. Now imagine someone scores a powerful unique/rare in a drop, and your luck has been on the level of a demoralized player such as Defektiv (who I quoted in my prior post).

You think that'll be fun? Gear imbalance with no relatively-easy way to rectify that balance? Haha. Instead of RMT for an item, they'd be looking at Ebay for a Path of Exile account for sale...

RMT comes up often as a reason to create a SFL, but aside from the PVP issue - which is speculation due to certain game mechanics being disabled in PVP right now (so who knows how PVP enhanced will be handled) - I still don't see a compelling reason to fracture the playerbase even further than it will be (due to the two new leagues offered upon release). RMT/trading simply don't affect my SELF-FOUND, SOLO gameplay experience (yes, I am self-found and rarely party with anyone else).

Fans of ladder resets will have to be satisfied with races and special event leagues - unless GGG is willing to periodically reset standard/hardcore leagues... (which in and of itself is unfair to players like Baker, who hit 100 in HC recently)

I appreciate your passion for this issue, DarthSki. I'm strongly disagreeing with you, but not unsympathetic towards your dissatisfaction with the game.

You requested an analyses of the core issue at hand which drives people to request an SF-league.

I give u

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My personal opinion why SFL attracts so many viewers. For u scrottie a selfless analysis, but i'm sure you will burn it.

And you come back with a personal attack on me, and my play style that u have no clue about.

What i presented in my spoiler was an empathic view of the people entering this thread.
Nowhere did i note i had personal interest invested in that opinion.

I have died on hc 3x so far out of 30+ chars (2 in 1 hour races due to tripleshockstacks), play them all semi self found with minimal trade, and usually make due with what i find.

I believe your reading and comprehension skills still need work.

Thx for your compliance, i shall easily forget it.

Please don't request something, to then slap it in the face of the creator.

Peace

-itheryel-

@Boem: What? I sincerely was not trying to be rude in my reply; I'm downright befuddled by your last post.

Not that I necessarily have a problem with laying it on fierce, just that I really wasn't this time.

I was perhaps too strong in my statement that RMT would be eliminated. Clearly you cannot stop it completely.

While I understand not agreeing with me, I cannot understand not allowing players to play how they want to play. It's just unfortunate, and I don't understand someone being "against" SFL.

Why do you care if a few thousand of us want to play in a different way.

Edit: As a side note, I know this is mostly an exercise in futility. It is VERY CLEAR that GGG doesn't really want to implement this. Plus even if they did it would be many months if not a year down the road. They won't retain players that actually want this league. There will be other games, and people will move on. Although I think it's foolish, they can do whatever they want.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I was perhaps too strong in my statement that RMT would be eliminated. Clearly you cannot stop it completely.

While I understand not agreeing with me, I cannot understand not allowing players to play how they want to play. It's just unfortunate, and I don't understand someone being "against" SFL.

Why do you care if a few thousand of us want to play in a different way.

Edit: As a side note, I know this is mostly an exercise in futility. It is VERY CLEAR that GGG doesn't really want to implement this. Plus even if they did it would be many months if not a year down the road. They won't retain players that actually want this league. There will be other games, and people will move on. Although I think it's foolish, they can do whatever they want.

Respectfully, Darthski, he's already answered this. He's not against people playing the way they want to play. He's against hiding from the problem rather than fixing it. There are reasons self found players are dissatisfied in standard and hardcore and the ability to trade isn't the cause, it's a symptom. Treating the symptom leaves the underlying disease to fester, causing further issues down the line.

What he (and few others of us who don't want a separate league) is saying is fix the real problem so that everyone can get a satisfying experience in the leagues we already have.

Hi

You know what I love about this post no one has yet to really discredit what I suggest a NCSFCL(Non competitive self found crafting league) should be. All I have read is constant BS about half truths and the bottom line is that GGG is about forcing people to trade and SF is supposedly possible but if anything it hides a dark secret that this game is unbalanced in its drops and crafting and will inevitably force your character to trade. What gets to me the most is the people against this option are rich from trading and like trading is harder then SF?, you must be joking.

Sl4y3r

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Again, if you want a SFL for the sake of competition, since it eliminates RMT, this sounds great. But you're not asking for that.

Do you read anything?What am I asking for then ''wise'' person, what is everyone that dreams of SF asking? No wonder some of the new skills and stuff GGG brings out sucks with ignorant people like you in alpha testing them but equally you are there probably because you are incapable of seeing into new horizons and say yes to everything which is a quality GGG prides itself on I suppose.

So Sl4y3r,Yet again I ask you to give a full proper explanation as to why this mode would be easier? Why does HC need a league? Why do traders need a trade screen? If you can answer these questions maybe you might realize that SFL has equal footing in why it should exist, it is a different play style that like trading and HC could supposedly be played in standard so why did GGG make these things separate? Ask any HC player and they will tell you they can just as easily play HC in standard, oh and lets not forget HC isn't that HC since you can trade in that mode...That's not what I call HARDCORE.

And ScrotieMCB, you a funny chap mentioning that you would never post on SFL again and here you are...Thanks for the publicity I suppose since you are quite the forum user.

SFL+ 1

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.3)Increased orb drops NOT items.4)No party benefits, permanent loot allocation.5)New recipes and specialized orbs.

cheers to all that see the possibilities of SFL OR NCSFCL(Non Competitive Self Found Crafting League)

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Why do you care if a few thousand of us want to play in a different way.

It's not about wanting, it's about doing. Given 3 million accounts currently, I estimate far more than a thousand would join such a league. Keep in mind that once you say "increased drop rates" you're going to get a lot of players looking to exploit such an advantage. If the droprate increases are very high, it could even have some very strong temporary appeal, virtually deserting the current leagues, until they find out that the lack of trading is a bigger disadvantage than first thought.

More importantly, though, it dooms both leagues to extremes rather than a reasonable compromise. If you have an X league and a non-X league, players who have valid concerns about X play will be dismissed with "go play non-X league," and players who have valid concerns about non-X will be dismissed with "go play X league." While I feel this is sometimes exactly the right answer to give players — such as for questions like "when will the economy be wiped?" and "will legacy uniques exist?" — it's not the right answer for all situations.

I think a great example of this is loot allocation. Don't get me wrong, before loot options, the Short Allocation loot system had some major issues, and things were fucking stupid. However, introducing options didn't fix loot tension, which could have been something cool and unique to Path of Exile, but instead removed loot tension entirely. In my view, GGG should have more thoroughly investigated mechanics which punish "ninja" looting behavior, creating some kind of consequence system, without making it downright impossible. Now that loot options are a reality, I know that such a fixed version of SA will never, ever happen; those who try to argue from the PA side of things and say that PA should be a little more like SA will be told to go play SA, and those who argue from the SA side of things and say SA should have more consequences for ninja behavior will be told to go play PA.

In the same way, I know that if a SFL is ever created, major balance issues will continue to persist in both SFL and the old leagues, because it doesn't make sense to make SFL more like the old leagues, or the old leagues more like SFL. That perfect balance will become impossible to achieve.

Ironically, I think the death penalty issue may have been compromised in a similar way, as Standard's weak penalty leads to a corrupted economy and Hardcore's is borderline masochism... but hardcore vs softcore is a very old concept in ARPGs, and one needs to pick one's battles.

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Finkenstein wrote:

ScrotieMCB, you a funny chap mentioning that you would never post on SFL again and here you are...Thanks for the publicity I suppose since you are quite the forum user.

I said I'd never post again in the other thread over in Suggestions.

I still haven't.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Given 3 million accounts currently, I estimate far more than a thousand would join such a league.

I wonder how many of that 3 million is active, using it in any estimation is ill-advised imho.