Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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defektiv wrote:

But you want to know what's even more sad? After giving up the dream of gearing any of my freeze pulsers, after giving up on one of them ever being CI and fully respeccing, after giving up on self found since late last year, the first 67 map I do with a friend and he gets a chain chest with more ES on it than any chest I've ever seen drop. It just feels like getting kicked while you're down.

How would a SFL solve your dissatisfaction?

Or are you arguing not for a SGL, but for an increased drop rate overall?

Where is the burn ffs?... next time i don't put my opinion in a spoiler '-.-

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

This is as it should be, especially since it's obvious you're talking about powerful end-game uniques. Although there should be some consistency in gear progression, it should take you an amazingly long time to reach the very height of good gear. The trick, from a design standpoint, is to make the journey last as long as humanly possible, while avoiding the feeling that the journey has come to a halt.

That's not what I mean. Right now it's like this. You probably won't ever have a Koam's or Shav's drop, but hey If I farm alts for 5 weeks, I will just buy one.

That's fucked up and dumb. For me at least. Like I said, I'm know many people like this currency related side game.

Since you requested it...

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Boem wrote:

I think it are these subtle changes in the game that are very punishing on a player, and can create a need for a "SF-league", not so much because they wish to play self-found, but more because they want to enjoy the experience of smooth upgrades, and the fun that comes with finding these in a reasonable amount of time.

That's essentially what I've been against throughout this entire thread: players are suggesting the "need" for a new self-found league, not because they wish to play self-found, but because of something else. Wouldn't it make more sense to fix the something else?

Progression should be fast early and slow late. Players begin this game as essentially a blank slate; as they progress, they become more personalized. Rapid progression in the early part of the game quickly transforms your character from a blank, impersonal choice to a highly personalized build, increasing your feeling in ownership of the character. That's why, in every ARPG ever, progression is always fastest at the lower levels and slows down over time. It simply doesn't make sense to use a linear character progression model all the way from level 1 to end-game. This applies to all forms of progression: levels, gem levels, available sockets, itemization in general. As such, it's totally irrational to expect the pace of early progression to continue through to the end-game.

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Boem wrote:

However then u enter the next difficulty, at this point links become important for the progression, both in build deployment and in enjoyment linked with the ability to utilize the intended skill combo's. And here the "satisfying" character of the game pace is lost.

[snip]

I think a reasonable change to aquire 4-links should be implemented. (and im pretty sure they are working on this, like mentioned in this thread, GGG is aware of this issue and the result of it)

You're pretty much agreeing with Qarl in terms of one of the sources of the problem, while implicitly disagreeing with his solution to that problem. I don't think that makes much sense, frankly; it seems he intends to tackle the 4L issue fairly directly.

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Boem wrote:

I think everybody can agree that u wont go into endgame with aligned gear with Ilvl 55 mods?

I've seen this all the time, and although I've tried a lot of bad builds which couldn't pull it off, my good builds have pulled through and even done maps with gear that's only a step above trash. Perhaps your standards for gear are too high; do you really expect to facetank all content?

I really don't like it when someone responds to a complaint with "l2play" or similar elitist bullshit. But, seriously, you could stand to learn something, and I don't mean that in an asshole way. The next time there's a race event that lasts longer than a day (it would be after release), stop playing yourself for a bit and watch some streamers. For example, in the last one-week party race, I watched off-and-on as Kripparrian went from level 1 to maps in less than 2 days, hardcore, solo self-found (it was a party race with trading, but he didn't party or trade from what I could tell, and I saw him waste plenty of currency on desperation crafting). He often had to find ways to make things work with truly crappy gear. There are things people do to adjust which I can only imagine you aren't doing.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

SFL does so many positive things. It eliminates RMT. It eliminates wealth as the driving force to the game. You don't have to spend extra time trading, you can actually play the game. If you decided to PvP in SFL at least you know your opposition didn't purchase his items, or get it from his power-broker friend. Sure maybe he played more hours than you, but you could live with that.

It does none of these things.

Accounts can be bought and sold.

Wealth will always be the driving force in this game. This, like every other ARPG ever, is a game where you wear your wealth while using the wealth in your hand to bash in the skulls of your enemies.

Players currently do not have to spend extra time trading; they decide to, because a part of the game encourages them to. Removing trading prevents them from spending the time, but does not remove the push. (I've said this many times, and it's getting old.)

As I said before, accounts could be bought and sold, so you wouldn't know that your PvP opponent didn't purchase his items.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Spoiler

I don't agree with this at all. SFL supporters don't want to trade, they want to find their own gear.(hence self-found). In the end players will play in the leagues they enjoy the most, and that isn't bad for anyone. To say that its good for players to play in a league they don't really want to play in, just so the original league has a larger player base is inherently flawed. You just lose player retention, which hurts GGG even more.

The economy problem, and it is a problem, is just going to get worse. With enhanced PvP coming out, the emphasis on gear is just going to increase. And as the demand increases so too does the price. The side effect will be more RMT, more Flipping, and a more divergent wealth gap. Already you have certain players, which I won't name, who have power-brokered the best items, or used incredible wealth to craft amazing items, which they now charge to mirror and amass more wealth. If you can't see the problem going forward then you just don't want to see it. I pity new players.

SFL does so many positive things. It eliminates RMT. It eliminates wealth as the driving force to the game. You don't have to spend extra time trading, you can actually play the game. If you decided to PvP in SFL at least you know your opposition didn't purchase his items, or get it from his power-broker friend. Sure maybe he played more hours than you, but you could live with that.

You want to know why D2 ladder resets were so popular? Everyone was on the same page for awhile. Imagine if this was a permanent solution?

Imagine a league where if a Kaom's dropped, you might think, hmm maybe I'll roll a BM life build, instead of "holy shit I'm rich".

Bringing up PVP as a reason to create a SFL is a flawed argument. If you'd think that would solve the "problem", you're wrong. Imagine a league where you can't trade for items, and are completely reliant upon crafting/RNGing your own gear. Now imagine someone scores a powerful unique/rare in a drop, and your luck has been on the level of a demoralized player such as Defektiv (who I quoted in my prior post).

You think that'll be fun? Gear imbalance with no relatively-easy way to rectify that balance? Haha. Instead of RMT for an item, they'd be looking at Ebay for a Path of Exile account for sale...

RMT comes up often as a reason to create a SFL, but aside from the PVP issue - which is speculation due to certain game mechanics being disabled in PVP right now (so who knows how PVP enhanced will be handled) - I still don't see a compelling reason to fracture the playerbase even further than it will be (due to the two new leagues offered upon release). RMT/trading simply don't affect my SELF-FOUND, SOLO gameplay experience (yes, I am self-found and rarely party with anyone else).

Fans of ladder resets will have to be satisfied with races and special event leagues - unless GGG is willing to periodically reset standard/hardcore leagues... (which in and of itself is unfair to players like Baker, who hit 100 in HC recently)

I appreciate your passion for this issue, DarthSki. I'm strongly disagreeing with you, but not unsympathetic towards your dissatisfaction with the game.

You requested an analyses of the core issue at hand which drives people to request an SF-league.

I give u

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My personal opinion why SFL attracts so many viewers. For u scrottie a selfless analysis, but i'm sure you will burn it.

And you come back with a personal attack on me, and my play style that u have no clue about.

What i presented in my spoiler was an empathic view of the people entering this thread.
Nowhere did i note i had personal interest invested in that opinion.

I have died on hc 3x so far out of 30+ chars (2 in 1 hour races due to tripleshockstacks), play them all semi self found with minimal trade, and usually make due with what i find.

I believe your reading and comprehension skills still need work.

Thx for your compliance, i shall easily forget it.

Please don't request something, to then slap it in the face of the creator.

Peace

-itheryel-

@Boem: What? I sincerely was not trying to be rude in my reply; I'm downright befuddled by your last post.

Not that I necessarily have a problem with laying it on fierce, just that I really wasn't this time.

I was perhaps too strong in my statement that RMT would be eliminated. Clearly you cannot stop it completely.

While I understand not agreeing with me, I cannot understand not allowing players to play how they want to play. It's just unfortunate, and I don't understand someone being "against" SFL.

Why do you care if a few thousand of us want to play in a different way.

Edit: As a side note, I know this is mostly an exercise in futility. It is VERY CLEAR that GGG doesn't really want to implement this. Plus even if they did it would be many months if not a year down the road. They won't retain players that actually want this league. There will be other games, and people will move on. Although I think it's foolish, they can do whatever they want.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I was perhaps too strong in my statement that RMT would be eliminated. Clearly you cannot stop it completely.

While I understand not agreeing with me, I cannot understand not allowing players to play how they want to play. It's just unfortunate, and I don't understand someone being "against" SFL.

Why do you care if a few thousand of us want to play in a different way.

Edit: As a side note, I know this is mostly an exercise in futility. It is VERY CLEAR that GGG doesn't really want to implement this. Plus even if they did it would be many months if not a year down the road. They won't retain players that actually want this league. There will be other games, and people will move on. Although I think it's foolish, they can do whatever they want.

Respectfully, Darthski, he's already answered this. He's not against people playing the way they want to play. He's against hiding from the problem rather than fixing it. There are reasons self found players are dissatisfied in standard and hardcore and the ability to trade isn't the cause, it's a symptom. Treating the symptom leaves the underlying disease to fester, causing further issues down the line.

What he (and few others of us who don't want a separate league) is saying is fix the real problem so that everyone can get a satisfying experience in the leagues we already have.