Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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defektiv wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

I thought I'd also note, when I see part of the problem is a perception that people feel they need what the most time invested players have, I am not saying "you are all just entitled". I am saying, this is an actual problem we have, and we want to find out why we have this signalling issue.

It may be a just a perception issue and you made a great point about that in your initial posting in this thread. The problem here is that if you are NOT a full time streamer/gamer, streamers being something you also illustrated is a highly visible but also minority of the player base. If you are not, it often seems like the game unfairly nerfs drop rates in order to keep pace with those players, who often get bored and leave the game early anyway. I am a person who has played entirely self found and only traded currency to relieve overstock in alts/chroms, and who has complained. I have yet to gear a single player for 69+ maps and have never even seen a 6L, and its not through lack of trying.

So I understand the point you made and you're probably right. You guys are pretty smart and I'm no game designer. And I do understand that if you make drops too common then the game becomes way too easy. But there is still a bad taste left in ones mouth when they play countless hours and end up with 60 stash tabs full of mediocre crap while stories of streamer x or racer y dying and losing their 5th 6L this month roll around constantly. And I'm not really sure where there is a middle ground or if there even is one, but there certainly are contrasting realities to this subject.

Word of note, currency drops seem fine its gear drops that seem brutal and quirky, 6Ls just feel impossible for me. Leveling gear I have for days.. and scrolls, my scroll RNG is pretty good. http://imgur.com/0Rlqj25

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Ugm wrote:

Hi! I know that you don't want to add Self-Found League at the moment, but maybe if you introduced account bound items, any league would have support for ironborn players. Let's say that items would be bound by using some orbs with higher chances of positive effect (which you could buy at vendor or so). Anyway account bound items wouldn't necessarily have to be dropped, so players who don't like such mechanic wouldn't even notice it. What do you think of such indirect ways of introducing support for self-found players? Are there any other plans of making solo players life easier?

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Chris_GGG wrote:

The issue with introducing bonuses for binding items is that then it will affect normal players - they'll have a choice between binding (destroying the trade value of an item) or using it in an unbound and worse state. I don't really like that tradeoff. We're definitely trying to support players who refuse to party or trade, but those are both systems that require effort and that effort is rewarded.

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What you SFL people want is to be on equal footing with people who use all aspects of the game available to the player to improve their characters. Trading is a part of the game of path of exile. If you're trading, you're playing the game.

Why should you people get the same reward for less effort?

Again, this entire argument is a waste of time considering that the game is already both playable and enjoyable in this way.

If it's not enjoyable for you because you don't have better gear than you have, then you should play the game in the way the devs intended.

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Finkenstein wrote:

Hi

1+ SFL

SFL is for people that are interested in the experience of the game minus all the trading and ladders. SFL is to attempt to bridge the crafting orb-drop gap and really think about it would you use the exalt that has dropped the first time in weeks or trade it for a guaranteed wicked item?

SFL would encourage players to craft/gamble more and exhibit some more fundamental issues with this game. This is why I suggest SFL league guidelines to see a general consensus that eventually will be read by a GGG dev because when a player/dev thinks about it enough they will realize there is 3 main types of players and equally should be 3 types of ''standard play'', HC,Standard, and SFL. SFL is the cross between HC and Standard, players don't lose their characters but they can't trade and must quest to find these items or if my final suggestion is followed, usage of new recipes and orbs can be attempted in this league which after testing could, later bring to the rest of POE. Players in SFL will be able to craft with that exalt without worrying about what ''deal'' they could've acquired instead.

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.3)Increased orb drops NOT items.4)No party benefits, permanent loot allocation.5) New recipes and specialized orbs.

Subversus

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What you SFL people want is to be on equal footing with people who use all aspects of the game available to the player to improve their characters. Trading is a part of the game of path of exile. If you're trading, you're playing the game.

Why should you people get the same reward for less effort?

Again, this entire argument is a waste of time considering that the game is already both playable and enjoyable in this way.

If it's not enjoyable for you because you don't have better gear than you have, then you should play the game in the way the devs intended.

SO your cool with believing that devs want a player to only: stack mf, never craft, and always trade their orbs? Fuck me, ignorance is bliss aye, Subversus? seems like you missed the point of this game and that makes no sense to me either.

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Subversus wrote:

What you've somehow extracted from my post, is exaggerated nonsense.

The devs planned on you using MF / trading / partying / crafting at your leisure.

Why can't a player play self-found 95% of the time but utilize the various tools available to get that certain reduction in difficulty that they apparently so desperately need? This argument doesn't have to be so black and white.

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Qarl wrote:

I can give my current thoughts on self found.

In the existing leagues, there is nothing stopping anyone from playing self-found, and we know many of our players do. We also have players that only engage rarely with other players, trading and partying occasionally.

So, as you can play self found in an existing league, I doubt we need to separate out the leagues. The question then is, are there progression problems with self found. I think there are two parts to this:

Can you play through self found? Currently there are issues with this, especially around the 40s. One of the main problems here is the availability of 4-linked items. Gear progression gets hard here, as replacement gear requires both beating existing gear in stats, and in skill support. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full skill sets, and can skimp on stats and still progress quickly.

If we are going to make changes, it will likely be on the ability to make or the availability of 4 linked items.


The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-found play. In general the main issue comes when players look to the top of ladders and to streamers to direct what their play experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to achieve. In general these players are pushing every advantage they can from trade, long play, group play.

Often, when I get told - "everyone is doing X", and I have a look, there are often only a handful of people doing, its just often these are the most visible. An example of this is 6-link Shavronne's. If I look at over level 90 characters, in all leagues, played in the last month, well under 50 players have Shavronne's Wrappings equipped. And if I look at the stats, if you want to die, wear a Shavronne's.

We will not be making a league to make it possible to replicate the play of these players. 1) We don't think its needed. 2) From past experience, if we make accommodations to make it possible to replicate these players, these players will still beat you. If we made a self found league with competitive advantages but solo play, you'll see the same players on top of those leagues, and we'll get a new set of complaints from people who want to replicate the achievements without the same investment.