Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Novalisk wrote:

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MierenEronaile wrote:

@Novalisk

Im not sure if you read it, but I did point out that mirroring a chest to preserve, say, 5 or 6 off colors you farmed for months to get but now want to use the chest for alts would be a viable use of a mirror in SFL.

As well as the two you mentioned, that makes three pretty useful options for a mirror even in SFL.

That's still a very niche use. Those 3 combined don't even begin to compare to the power of Mirror in other leagues.

Yea, you are right about that, I was just trying to show it did still have a use.

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Reinhart wrote:

1) Which kind of roadblocks do you speak of when leveling up a character to 70?

2) What are your goals in this game?

In my case, the answer to both questions is really the same. Right now I'm simply looking to be able to complete Merciless.

I'm a shit build crafter, so I use builds found online that are proven. Many of those builds one can find online do use a healthy selection of uniques, but the ones I use only really rely on some of the more common build enabling ones (which I have found). The roadblocks I've been facing are due to the fact that my equipment isn't sufficiently strong to support these proven builds. Items that I get as drops generally fall into 3 categories: 1) no mods useful to my build or socket arrangements that fail to improve my character; 2) incremental improvement to defense at a large cost to offensive capability; or 3) incremental offensive increase for dramatic survivability sacrifice.

Sure, I could use the small number of orbs I gt through drops to try and shape these into something more fitting, and I make every effort to do so. What I wind up with is an item that still fits into one of those three categories and no orbs to work with. What I need is to be able to increase either offense or defense, no matter how incrementally, while being able to maintain the other.

I'm not looking to instantly go to a gear set that will see me through 77 maps. I'm looking to take one step forward without having to simultaneously take 3 steps back so that replacing a piece of gear actually leaves me better off rather than worse.

As I've said before, I know that GGG must exert some control over the rate at which orbs enter the economy so long as orbs are the official currency of the game. This leads to a scenario in which crafting is sensible only when one approaches the pinnacle of itemization for their character. This is because it is far more reliable to use orbs to trade rather than to craft. The problem is that crafting becomes important far earlier in the game, and arguably, is more important earlier in the game.

Around mid to late cruel is where most builds get to the point that they are becoming more defined and the list of mods they need on gear begins to become much more focused. Up to this point, just about any build can survive on what it finds. As the difficulty ramps up in late cruel and into merciless, it becomes increasingly necessary to be able to shape the gear you find into the gear you need. Due to the way crafting is tied to the in game economy, though, this proves inordinately difficult if not outright impossible without trade because dropped orbs are simply too scarce. While there's no guarantee that having a stash tab full of orbs will yield the desired result (nor should there be any such guarantee), with more attempts the chance of "accidentally" landing on something that would serve as an upgrade grows.

Again, despite what some folks seem intent to believe (regardless of the fact that I am more qualified to determine my motives than they are) most of us aren't looking for instant end game gear. We just want to have more of a chance to get what we need to climb over obstacles without having to rely on what drops for you or anyone else.

(I know I"m not the most eloquent poster around here, but I hope I've managed to clearly convey what it is I'm trying to get across)

Hi

1+SFL

Thank you to everyone that continues to support this idea for a new league and to those with so much ignorance towards this idea, IT'S OK just don't be insulting this doesn't affect you since most SFLers don't trade to begin with or have any impact on the ''economy''.

SFL:1)No trades with other players.2)No mf rolls on blue or yellow items.3)Increased orb drops NOT items.4)No party benefits,permanent loot allocation.5)New orbs and recipes to allow more specified crafting.

cheers

I am a casual self founder. I work and don't have the time to play this game for hours and hour on end. When I do play though, I would play for like a week straight until I hit a wall and need to trade(but always give up and don't bother) or put in hours trying to find/craft gear. I have like 30+ characters.

This wall for me usually happens around the 45-60 levels. It is either I never get good drops with the exact affixes I need for my build or the build I am going for requires way to much work to be good and just falls apart because it does not scale very well on it's own without great gear. I don't usually have problems "finding"(crafting is hard) 4 links, but I have hit that wall just once.

I would not mind a HC self-found league with no trading. However, this league would need to drop crafting items more often to make gear to progress for casual players. When league is done, they are put in standard league. GGG made this game for the HC players, but you guys can't ignore the casual players either. Making this league I think would be for the casual players. This league sounds attractive to me cause I would use up all my currency instead of saving it for a rainy day for trading.

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Novalisk wrote:

A trading game doesn't necessarily mean trading will be more profitable than playing, nor does it mean hours of trading in order to sell your items. It can mean you simply put items you don't need up on sale effortlessly, and someone who does need them may offer you crafting materials for it. Trading isn't very good now, but don't take it as an indication of what trading is, especially considering GGG has been talking about a trade revamp for a while.

Trading and self-found have completely different philosophises. That said, I sincerely hope GGG 'fix' trading for those who feel they need that mechanism to enjoy/progress, however, it's pointless discussing how trading might be used, in any thread, regarding self-found.

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Novalisk wrote:

How else would people experience "slow progress" without comparing themselves to others?

I, and it would seem, many other SFL advocates don't care how long it takes to achieve something, it's the journey that matters.

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Novalisk wrote:

If the game is built in a way that forces you to farm docks and lunaris instead of progressing into maps, with the only alternative being spamming tradechat and maintaining forum threads, then that's a problem with the game that should be addressed by an actual solution (and according to GGG's recent words about changing MF and revamping trading they are working on it).

I'm sure they're working to 'fix' the game, it needs attention in many areas. However, that doesn't preclude the desire for SFL.

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Novalisk wrote:

Yes, you will sit on exalts until you get an item that's "worthy" of exalting. you won't suddenly use exalts on mediocre gear just because you can't trade exalts away.

I'd rather find an item worthy of exalting than simply buying it.

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Novalisk wrote:

Mirrors would be close to useless, since the whole point of them is to duplicate gear from other players. Unless you're dual wielding (i guess rings work too) there's almost no point in using a mirror in self-found since you can just transfer gear to your alts. It would be incredibly frustrating to get a mirror in SFL.

Already addressed by others. However, in over a year of playing I've never seen a mirror and I couldn't really care less if I did or didn't find one. I'd rather have crafting materials instead of a gimmick.

If you play, the drops will come.

Say NO to self-found league because it is a waste of time and resources.

There are tons of items that still need the correct art put into the game, balance issues, and future content that is more important than another league.

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Wraeclastian wrote:

If you play, the drops will come.

Say NO to self-found league because it is a waste of time and resources.

There are tons of items that still need the correct art put into the game, balance issues, and future content that is more important than another league.

The resources are already in place for creating new leagues both free - replacements for Onslaught and Anarchy, as well as the promised paid versions. Moreover, the prototype for SFL (descent race) is already there. Seems to me like most of the 'GGG don't have enough resources' arguments have very little by way of substance.

I would love a league where only white base types drop with random sockets/links and orb drops buffed significantly.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

A trading game doesn't necessarily mean trading will be more profitable than playing, nor does it mean hours of trading in order to sell your items. It can mean you simply put items you don't need up on sale effortlessly, and someone who does need them may offer you crafting materials for it. Trading isn't very good now, but don't take it as an indication of what trading is, especially considering GGG has been talking about a trade revamp for a while.

Trading and self-found have completely different philosophises. That said, I sincerely hope GGG 'fix' trading for those who feel they need that mechanism to enjoy/progress, however, it's pointless discussing how trading might be used, in any thread, regarding self-found.

Again, trading is a problem. I'm not trying to force self-found players to trade but rather make it less of a pain, so people who wish to play self-found can do so as an alternative to a solid system, rather than an escape from a terrible one. Also, SFL is being viewed by many as a way to address the problem, while it doesn't fix it for the majority of players. That's why I'm bringing it up.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

How else would people experience "slow progress" without comparing themselves to others?

I, and it would seem, many other SFL advocates don't care how long it takes to achieve something, it's the journey that matters.

What parts of "the journey" are you talking about that aren't enjoyable to you? Please try to be specific instead of vague at this point. It won't help GGG address the issues, and all it does is perpetuate an argument.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

If the game is built in a way that forces you to farm docks and lunaris instead of progressing into maps, with the only alternative being spamming tradechat and maintaining forum threads, then that's a problem with the game that should be addressed by an actual solution (and according to GGG's recent words about changing MF and revamping trading they are working on it).

I'm sure they're working to 'fix' the game, it needs attention in many areas. However, that doesn't preclude the desire for SFL.

The desire for SFL in a lot of players originated from these issues. If these issues were fixed, then the desire for SFL would be lessened.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

Yes, you will sit on exalts until you get an item that's "worthy" of exalting. you won't suddenly use exalts on mediocre gear just because you can't trade exalts away.

I'd rather find an item worthy of exalting than simply buying it.

You'd still sit on exalts, and finding an item worthy of exalting will take you a lot longer than those who snowballed into a huge gear advantage.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

Mirrors would be close to useless, since the whole point of them is to duplicate gear from other players. Unless you're dual wielding (i guess rings work too) there's almost no point in using a mirror in self-found since you can just transfer gear to your alts. It would be incredibly frustrating to get a mirror in SFL.

Already addressed by others. However, in over a year of playing I've never seen a mirror and I couldn't really care less if I did or didn't find one. I'd rather have crafting materials instead of a gimmick.

Not really addressed by anyone. Someone came up with a niche way to use it if you want an alt to use a 6-link with different colours, but it's very niche.

Personally if it dropped for me in SFL it would be quite the annoyance. Regardless, it probably isn't difficult to remove them.

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The resources are already in place for creating new leagues both free - replacements for Onslaught and Anarchy, as well as the promised paid versions. Moreover, the prototype for SFL (descent race) is already there. Seems to me like most of the 'GGG don't have enough resources' arguments have very little by way of substance.

GGG's resources being spent on this, instead of on more important issues that concern a wider playerbase is a valid concern. You can't just dismiss it by assuming things. Go ahead and question it, but don't dismiss it unless you're a GGG employee that actually knows the effort estimation.

Hi

+SFL

cheers