Don't Remove MF from the Game; Just Cut it in Half

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Thus, instead of a flat 40/65 more bonus to everyone, it would make more sense to base this bonus off of the player's current level; for example, let's say 0.5% more IIQ per character level and 1% more IIR, which would be 35/70 at level 70 and 40/80 at level 80. This would be a completely hidden more bonus, and IIQ/IIR on items would still be halved. The result for endgame would be virtually identical to my original suggestion, but it wouldn't overwhelm the early game loot cadence with extraneous, undeserved rares.

And I guess the frustrated level 90s out there would come out ahead. They probably deserve it.

I'll update the OP later; I'm on my cell now.

I think you did a good job of taking a poor implementation from Diablo 3 and distilling it down to the part that was a good idea (a rampant problem throughout D3). I would have preferred it just effect IIR because IIQ effects currency as well, but numbers are just a balance concern.

I still think the bonus should be account-based instead of character-based, but I guess I'll take the compromise. I might have "over-sold" the concept of level cadence because I wasn't sure if it would take or not, so I made a very biased analysis to push the point. There is also an element where the player has changed, but it's difficult to capture and discuss what that change is.

Another thing that might make it look "less D3-like" would be to put the bonus into the difficulty level. I think it would be important for this to be a visible bonus and not something hidden the player has to read a guide to know about. Just like the -60% resists in Merciless, you get +60% IIR (or whatever the number) just for being in the difficulty. I have a suspicion Merciless has better item rolls but it's not something revealed to the player so it's not something I can act on rationally- this is not the way it should be. For a hybrid system, IIQ could be based on difficulty (Maps count as a 4th difficulty) and IIR based on character level. Just food for thought.

edit: I forgot to mention the downside to difficulty-level based MF. It feels like the player has no control over their destiny when the modifiers are not coming from the character. It may be noted that all the difficulty based mods are negative, an MF bonus would be contrary to that. Mods coming from difficulty level feel like they are coming from the harsher world, mods from the character/account like your progress and achievement at overcoming the harsher world. So thematically it is paradoxical to provide beneficial difficulty-level mods. I mainly pointed it out as another alternative, not because I necessarily think it is the best way to do things.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Another thing that might make it look "less D3-like" would be to put the bonus into the difficulty level. I think it would be important for this to be a visible bonus and not something hidden the player has to read a guide to know about. Just like the -60% resists in Merciless, you get +60% IIR (or whatever the number) just for being in the difficulty.

God damn that's an even better idea than your first better idea.

I might have to redo all the numbers again to accommodate that system instead.

Sacred 2 had a very interesting loot mechanic called a survival bonus. Basically the longer you stayed alive the more your IIR went up. If you died the survival bonus would reset back to zero and begin again. This would definitely make endgame much more interesting.

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

Sacred 2 had a very interesting loot mechanic called a survival bonus. Basically the longer you stayed alive the more your IIR went up. If you died the survival bonus would reset back to zero and begin again. This would definitely make endgame much more interesting.

For Standard and Anarchy you mean.

On the one hand, those are the two leagues where huge IIQ/IIR advantages matter most; HC and Ons have that whole pesky "survivability is important" theme to them that keeps max MF away from it's ultimate, deathzerg potential.

On the other hand, implementing such a bonus might be the "scrubcore vs alt+f4core" equivalent to murdering Archduke Ferdinand.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Another thing that might make it look "less D3-like" would be to put the bonus into the difficulty level. I think it would be important for this to be a visible bonus and not something hidden the player has to read a guide to know about. Just like the -60% resists in Merciless, you get +60% IIR (or whatever the number) just for being in the difficulty.

God damn that's an even better idea than your first better idea.

I might have to redo all the numbers again to accommodate that system instead.

Oh, I do these things to bother you Scrotie. Just wait, when you update again someone will come up with an even better idea!

+1 on this good work, even if I only understood the half.

Ugh, I ran docks yesterday for 4 straight hours alternating between 110Q/300R and 80Q/400R. I did not get a single unique drop, but I did get enough crap rares to make 4-5 stacks of alt orbs. Then to end the night I ran the Unique Coward's Trial map and got... another Crown Of Thorns. Meanwhile, my friend who doesn't run near that much IIQ/IIR dropped a Marohi and a Midnight Bargain. It's probably just RNG out to get me, but it does feel like their were some subtle changes in the last patch. I've seen loads of people with crazy MF just have all their drops dry up recently. Most of them are now switching back to DPS gear.

Level 87 Crit Discharger. Play 99% solo. Running 0IIR/0IIQ since forever. Get an average of 2-4 rares pe map.

I did find two Void Batteries within a week of eachother.

RNG will always be RNG. Play what you have more fun on. Some people just can't psychologically justify NOT running IIR/IIQ. The thing is, you're not guaranteed anything with massive MF, and you're not restricted from anything with none. While I would LOVE for a nerf to IIQ/IIR, I do not feel pigdeon holed down that path. I just kill stuff and hope for the best :)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

[Rather lenghty, very well written OP]

Scrotie, I love your posts! If I were GGG I'd immediately hire you! :)
I think your suggestion could actually greatly help to make solo play feel more viable.
And I also think your post on page 2 deserves a thread on and of its own. I'd really like to see both of your ideas (I'll call them your ideas, although they surely took some input from PolarisOrbit and probably others into account) implemented.

Free bump for awesome thoughts!

I agree with this