Our view on map drop rates

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BRavich wrote:

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MrDDT wrote:

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BRavich wrote:

This wouldnt even be an issue if maps werent the only end game available in PoE.

Its no more an issue than saying you cant afford to craft gear is an issue.

You're wrong. Know why? There is no catch 22. Maps suddenly pop into existence at level 60. Gear has no such drop off. ilvl 59 gear serves you nearly just as well as ilvl 60 gear. ilvl 59 maps... well, there is no such thing.

Not being able to afford to craft gear does not entirely prevent you from having access to content.



The 2 problems are very dissimilar.

Maps dont pop into the game at level 60.

You can start getting maps in zones that are level 53.
You can also start doing maps at any level past level 35.

Not sure how not being able to craft gear doesnt prevent you from doing content. Crafting is content.

Excuse me for i'm coming here so suddenly, not read all the pages, and probably not a unique idea, but would't be good, if they reintroduce the Maelström of Chaos as a (constant) lvl59 endgame area?

-It would eliminate the repetitiveness of searching the first map (or if you run out of maps)
-Grants decent amount of xp, not like farming lvl53-55 maps
-You could also gear up for greater challenges
-It's "free" and continous, no need for resets
-Maps will drop off soon or later, so you can do lvl60+ maps for greater rewards.
-Chaos had it's own levels (recycled original maps but they looked different), so we could have more endgame level variety

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MrDDT wrote:

Not sure how not being able to craft gear doesnt prevent you from doing content. Crafting is content.

I dont see the point in discussing this with you if you're going to use semantics to dodge easily understood points.

@ DDT :
I read the patch notes of the last map changes again and saw that i thought quantity wouldn't affect map drops but it's just players quantity - my rolls haven't been the best then (but should still be > 1 map per map)

And i think i have to start again with my argumentation as it seems you really don't want to understand me. Please try to understand my whole point and not just some part of it (and i know it's hard because my english isn' good)

1. You start with 2-4 maps. Even with mods that give a 1.5-2 map drop rate there still is a possibility to not get enough maps to continue to play maps.
2. In some situations (e.g. in the first 30h of a race or in the last turbo race) nobody is selling maps.
3. You are single player (which GGG wants to make possible as far as i remember)

In case of 1 and (2 or 3) you are forced to farm for maps which is annoying as hell and no fun at all. After you found a map there is again the possibility for 1 and (2 or 3).

Why are some (unlucky) players forced to farm for 1 specific item if there is an easy solution to fix it?

(Now pick out some part of a sentence and ignore the rest of the post)

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Thirion wrote:

@ DDT :
I read the patch notes of the last map changes again and saw that i thought quantity wouldn't affect map drops but it's just players quantity - my rolls haven't been the best then (but should still be > 1 map per map)

And i think i have to start again with my argumentation as it seems you really don't want to understand me. Please try to understand my whole point and not just some part of it (and i know it's hard because my english isn' good)

1. You start with 2-4 maps. Even with mods that give a 1.5-2 map drop rate there still is a possibility to not get enough maps to continue to play maps.
2. In some situations (e.g. in the first 30h of a race or in the last turbo race) nobody is selling maps.
3. You are single player (which GGG wants to make possible as far as i remember)

In case of 1 and (2 or 3) you are forced to farm for maps which is annoying as hell and no fun at all. After you found a map there is again the possibility for 1 and (2 or 3).

Why are some (unlucky) players forced to farm for 1 specific item if there is an easy solution to fix it?

(Now pick out some part of a sentence and ignore the rest of the post)

First, I will say I have no problems with them adding selling 60 maps for 1 alch. I'm just saying it will not fix your problem because people will still be upset about paying 1 alch for a map.

Now about 2-4 maps and might have to go farm again. Lets just think of this using math. How much exp will you get in 4 maps? Lets say 1 level at level 60.
You are now level 61. You can still get 100% exp in your "farming" areas if you had to drop down to those areas. So what you call "farming" I would call just not getting the best exp. Which would be doing up to level 67 maps. Level 67 would be the best.

I'm not really a single player, I mix it up based on what is the best way to do things. Mostly I grouped btw. (boosting in fact)

Your #2 point, that's a sorta valid point, however, again its like someone getting a good drop to me and able to do well. Its not limiting you in being able to get exp, its just less exp. You can't buy the maps off players, but in the first 30h of turbo you are at the cutting edge. You also likely dont have a 6L or a 5L either. That's limiting builds and playstyles too. I see no difference.


Again I want to point out, I'm not saying not to sell level 60 maps for 1 alch each. I'm just saying it will not fix this problem.

What is my fix for this problem?

1)Make maps larger, and more rare. If you make them 2x larger, make them about 40% drop rate. This is so you are not doing a map every 5mins. I think they should be 3 or even 4x larger, so maps last about 15 to 1 hour long.
2)Give more options for harder maps, with more rewards. (Higher IIQ, and higher map drop rate, and higher map level dropped when maps are dropped) These maps would be from white (very very easy) to rare extremely hard maps. This would also need to be tested for balance on builds but shouldnt be to timely.
3)Chisels should have a larger effect.


If I didnt address part of your post, please just restate it.

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MrDDT wrote:

If I didnt address part of your post, please just restate it.

You addressed all parts - thx a lot. Sry for beeing harsh / a bit mad.

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MrDDT wrote:

First, I will say I have no problems with them adding selling 60 maps for 1 alch. I'm just saying it will not fix your problem because people will still be upset about paying 1 alch for a map.

Some people will always be upset. All i want is that it's not possible to run out of maps because you are unlucky.

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MrDDT wrote:

Now about 2-4 maps and might have to go farm again. Lets just think of this using math. How much exp will you get in 4 maps? Lets say 1 level at level 60.
You are now level 61. You can still get 100% exp in your "farming" areas if you had to drop down to those areas. So what you call "farming" I would call just not getting the best exp. Which would be doing up to level 67 maps. Level 67 would be the best.

I agree with you here. My problem is that playing the same area(s) over and over is really boring. The main reason i want to play maps is because i want to play something "new" and "different".

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MrDDT wrote:

I'm not really a single player, I mix it up based on what is the best way to do things. Mostly I grouped btw. (boosting in fact)

And that's ok of course. But if you wan't to play solo and don't like to trade the game shouldn't force you to do that.

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MrDDT wrote:

Your #2 point, that's a sorta valid point, however, again its like someone getting a good drop to me and able to do well. Its not limiting you in being able to get exp, its just less exp. You can't buy the maps off players, but in the first 30h of turbo you are at the cutting edge. You also likely dont have a 6L or a 5L either. That's limiting builds and playstyles too. I see no difference.

And again i agree with you exp-wise. But again i play maps because they are different from normal content. For me map mods make the maps different enough to not get the feeling to play an area the 100th time.

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MrDDT wrote:

What is my fix for this problem?

1)Make maps larger, and more rare. If you make them 2x larger, make them about 40% drop rate. This is so you are not doing a map every 5mins. I think they should be 3 or even 4x larger, so maps last about 15 to 1 hour long.
2)Give more options for harder maps, with more rewards. (Higher IIQ, and higher map drop rate, and higher map level dropped when maps are dropped) These maps would be from white (very very easy) to rare extremely hard maps. This would also need to be tested for balance on builds but shouldnt be to timely.
3)Chisels should have a larger effect.

I like your ideas - as long as you are not forced to go back to normal content and farm for a long time.

Sry again if i was too harsh/mad. I love PoE - but i really hate that there is the possibility to run out of maps. I have nothing against hard and frustrating - as long as there is a good and understandable reason for it and no other way to do it.

I agree with the larger average map point, it's a bit frustrating to get 1 map after a few hours of farming, and if you roll it without maze/larger area it can be done in 5 min whatever your progress is in the game

Some of what you are arguing is from the current beta perspective, not taking into account that the Eternal Laboratory won't be in until act 3 in OB, along with different areas and bosses to farm if you do run out of maps.

I think any frustration concerning the map system basically stems from a lack of understanding of the mechanics, which mods you need, how to maximize loot drops by partying, etc. But this is not different than anything else in this game, and in time people will learn.

All that being said, I wouldn't mind lvl 60 maps being sold. Not sure if selling them for 1 alch is the right price though, I'm thinking 1 chaos. In the end I think we should wait for OB and look at what act 3 has to offer before proposing such ideas though.

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yhateful wrote:

Some of what you are arguing is from the current beta perspective, not taking into account that the Eternal Laboratory won't be in until act 3 in OB, along with different areas and bosses to farm if you do run out of maps.

But it's still content you already have seen 4 times (usually).

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yhateful wrote:

I think any frustration concerning the map system basically stems from a lack of understanding of the mechanics, which mods you need, how to maximize loot drops by partying, etc. But this is not different than anything else in this game, and in time people will learn.

As long as map drops are random there is the possibility to run out of maps - even with the best mods you can get. Sure you can lower the possibility quite a bit but it's always there.

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yhateful wrote:

All that being said, I wouldn't mind lvl 60 maps being sold. Not sure if selling them for 1 alch is the right price though, I'm thinking 1 chaos. In the end I think we should wait for OB and look at what act 3 has to offer before proposing such ideas though.

Chaos would be ok too. I don't really care about the price - i just would like the possibility to buy.

Btw the main problem is in people's head because they fear to run out of maps - even if the possibility is really low.

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Thirion wrote:

Btw the main problem is in people's head because they fear to run out of maps - even if the possibility is really low.

It isnt in peoples' heads at all. People run out of maps regularly. I am a level 71 Templar and have been at end game for over a month now, and I have never, I repeat: never found a map above level 63 because my mapping runs have never lasted that long. Chris says use more chisels. Really? Chisels are rare enough that they are worth an alch each.

Unless blowing 4 chisels on a level 60 map is going to make it drop 5+ maps on average, that makes absolutely no sense.


So I'm stuck repeatedly running level 60 maps until the RNG stops being a dick to me, and THEN I can start chiseling higher level maps in hopes of finding more higher level maps, because otherwise I have to start the whole process over.





In all seriousness, if this is actually what end game entails for the remainder of PoE's lifespan, through open beta and release.... count me out.