Our view on map drop rates

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Burgingham wrote:

GGG needs to adress the whole mass of potential customers though and not just the top 1% and with this patch they did everything right to do just that. The few people complaining now will get used to maintaining their map status instead of drowning in maps, rerolling them to no end etc etc. That is really not necessary and it is good that has been taken out. Now you gotta start to think on how to use maps properly and trust me in the end it will be a much more satisfying feeling to always be somewhat on the edge.

You need to think outside the box of closed beta here, the solution offered by ggg to increase the maprate IS a success, but as this game progresses well and far beyond the timelines of CB it will need to possess long term consistency, and if i want to level within 66-69 maps and i cant find them there is a roadblock in endgame for me, no ones whining here bud this is all constructive, and i think its pretty safe to say that the 1% of us have surpassed simulation expectations, which is why you only hear from the 1% at high levels stumped at low lvl maps, we want to take part in high lvl maps, obviously sustaining them throughout and entirely is not how it was meant to be, but at this point there is a slight accessability issue from my experiences, which overtake god knows how many of the avg hour noob players (no offense), on the flipside i did find another dark forest and a marsh, these are the only maps that interest me seeing how the definition of endgame in my mind is: challenge and progression, anything under 65 is of no challenge, this is my point, if i dont make a new character i cant really advance my current, as slow as this process is it is still doable with 66+ maps. This isnt about ggg adhering to the needs of 1% of players in this situation, its simply about recognizing this will be the state of the game in due time for most players once this game hits the shelves. Creating an everlasting, balanced, fun functioning endgame is the real challenge/dealbreaker when your thinking long term.
Not saying it isnt fun, but like i said once u pass a certain level your outlook on endgame will alter, its as if the higher level you are the more dependant u have to be to customize to sustain which costs currency, sure its ok for everyone under lvl 75 to just do 60-64 maps and level in one day if they wanted, eventually this novelty fades where u reach 80+ and those maps dont account to 1%, at lvl 84 solo the map exp obviously depending on variable mods seems a bit like this.

3x63=1%
2x64=1%
65=.75%
66=1%
67=1-1.5%
68,69= 1-2.5%

do the math..

Maybe it would also be a decent idea to consider adding bonus XP to more difficult map rolls instead of just bonus quantity. That way, we could actually get something worth our time out of lower level maps instead of their only purpose being a possible avenue for other maps, in turn giving us less to complain about.

same with chisels, added quant/quality isn't enough, especially when the only mods that do effectively influence xp gains are maze/area/pack size which don't give anything for IIQ. why can't chisels add some bonus XP too? does progression in this game really need to be defined completely by RNG and how lucky you are with map drops?


another thing that possibly needs to be adjusted since the change is the recipe for map drops and chisels.

i don't think anyone in their right mind would vendor 40% combined quality on maps especially since chisel drop rate has been buffed.

i also believe that 3 of the same zone for only 1 of a zone higher is a bit steep/specific given the current map drop rate, please consider changing this or even possibly adding another variation (for ex. 2 of the same zones = map+1 level OR 4 different zones = map+1)

also consider adding a floor to maps, like -2 or -3 levels to the map you're already in.. running a 68 and having nothing higher than a 60 drop after dumping multiple gcp into it is a complete slap in the face

and lastly

as slurms and others have stated before, the maps seem very very small without area or maze..

for instance...

act 2 pyramids vs the vaal pyramid map

maybe that's where there needs to be adjustment instead of directly tuning the map drop rate... just more mobs and area size overall in maps... that would increase the average xp gains per map as well as provide somewhat of a buff to the map drop rate

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Burgingham wrote:

I have never dropped such a ton of maps like I do now since the patch. I will never again run out of maps, I constantly see them dropping everyhwere. Each map I run usually drops 1-3 maps. It is really good what they did here and everyone complaining is insane.

let me guess, level 60 maps?

Just did 3 maps and only got two back, the two maps I found were on 3% IIQ and 25% IIQ while the one I got no maps on was 42% IIQ.

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RandallPOE wrote:

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Burgingham wrote:

I have never dropped such a ton of maps like I do now since the patch. I will never again run out of maps, I constantly see them dropping everyhwere. Each map I run usually drops 1-3 maps. It is really good what they did here and everyone complaining is insane.

let me guess, level 60 maps?

I wish I would see what he describes with L60 maps. At least I wouldn't fear running out of maps anymore. Well done of him to call everyone complaining insane though, made his point for him, really.

So we are where we were before then. Some people are unlucky and can not maintain endgame. Some people are lucky. If the goal was to split the base and have half of them unhappy, mission accomplished I guess.
Tomorrow: Burning the rest of my maps stack in frustration by selling them for scraps at the vendor...

Seems to me the issue is not the global droprate of the maps, which is fine.

The issue comes from a statistical measure called 'variance'

the RNG will produce a normal distribution of maps across all players, some players will be in the left tail getting f-all maps. Some will be on the right with abundance.

if the variance is large then more players, proportionally, will be in that left tail when compared to a smaller variance.

Reducing the variance will lower this proportion, but will also lower the proportion of players with abundance.

Raising the global droprate does not inherently solve the problem, since the opposite problem becomes an issue, maps losing all value (if everyone gets enough constantly) or some players will still not get enough and we're right back in this thread- especially with greater player numbers giving the appearance of more players with lack.

in statistical terms we have two error types (called type 1 and type 2, for some reason). These two errors must be traded off against each other.
In this case the two errors are
1. Some players do not have enough maps.
2. Maps become so commonplace as to bugger the economy.

Which one do you want?

The implication of the type 2 error is that everything currently being complained about shifts from 'not enough' to 'not enough good'


Lowering the variance might prevent Type 1, but still runs the risk of Type 2, since high level toons will still require 'good' maps that are now actually harder to get since there isnt enough variance to generate them.

Raising the global droprate might prevent Type 1, but will certainly cause Type 2.


So, complainers: Which problem do you want?

Of course, all this becomes moot with a more accessible p2p trading system, which would, through market fundamentals, even out the variance without limiting top end maps.
In fact market accessibility is the solution to resource variance.

B.

TL;DR:
the problem will go away with a good trading platform.

I didn't read all of this carefully, so perhaps this has already been suggested, but why not do the following?

In a map of level XXX, there is always at least 1 map of the same level XXX that drops (either from a random monster or named boss?)

Then you can hope to get the higher level maps, to move further in the system, but it might take a random (to be balanced) amount of time to do so?

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bredin wrote:

TL;DR:
the problem will go away with a good trading platform.

I can see how this would work, those few guys who get so many maps its impossible for them to do them would just easily trade them off to someone who doesn't get any.

only problem is, this would start to disproportionately concentrate the wealth of the game into the hands of the lucky few who get more map drops then everybody else.

This is where botters could also come in, keep rolling characters until you get ones that have good drops, and then bam set up sites that sell them for real money.

Making global drops better for everyone could help avoid that situation, if it were to happen.

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ampdecay wrote:

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bredin wrote:

TL;DR:
the problem will go away with a good trading platform.

I can see how this would work, those few guys who get so many maps its impossible for them to do them would just easily trade them off to someone who doesn't get any.

only problem is, this would start to disproportionately concentrate the wealth of the game into the hands of the lucky few who get more map drops then everybody else.

This is where botters could also come in, keep rolling characters until you get ones that have good drops, and then bam set up sites that sell them for real money.

Making global drops better for everyone could help avoid that situation, if it were to happen.

Its like I just cant get away from you people

To those who says that if they allow more drop rate for maps it would affect the economy i say this is insane.

Why am i leveling a character beyond level 70?
To see more endgame content that is challenging to me.

Maps should not be a currency item, period.
I should be able to run whatever map i want whenever i want.
Any game "if any" that hinder your progress regarding endgame is not a fun game and shows a lack of creativity because this is just the devs want to slow you down because thy ran out of ideas.

You farm for maps and you are forced to play low level maps in the hope that you can play higher level maps one day.

Grind for gear and exp is something i can understand.
But grinding for end game content?
How about we also introduce a system where you have to grind for PVP tokens in order to enter the arena?

And they still refuse to answer the one simple question:

GGG...will the ability to do end game contents be based on RNG/Luck/Chance?