Remove MF completely from game

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Romzen wrote:

multiboxing + increased item quantity with maximised iiq on all secondary chars while the killing char is of course a dual spork with stacked iir. gg

yes, please. remove iiq and iir and come up with a fair solution.

You really have no idea what you are talking about right?

Maximized iiq on all secondary rofl xD

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culblade wrote:

I AGREE WITH OP.
I have a twin T sporker and about five over 60 and 3 over 75 chars.
Recently, the only way I can get any thing decent is with the sporker. Boring as all shit.
Cast, cast, curse and pickup. Yeah, this is grinding, but when is enough, enough?
I would prefer to play more exciting builds and still have a chance to get some loot.

Yup, that's exactly it. After you get a taste of what good MF is like, do you want to go back? Heck no.

Why play your "main" if you can play your MF guy instead and get rewards at a tremendously faster rate?

I agree with OP's sentiment.

But really I think the question is, do we need to nerf MF, or nerf Spokers? Perhaps by changing the spork gems so that they require more synergy to be strong, or just by nerfing Spell Totem Damage in general, the build diversity issue would be solved, and MF could become a more inteesting choice.

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Zaorish_9 wrote:

But really I think the question is, do we need to nerf MF, or nerf Spokers?

I don't think we need to do anything else from giving feedback. Nerfing or buffing is purely a GGG's prerogative. I don't get why it sometimes stated like people on forums (as in we) have some sort of relation to GGG's actions.

By the way, staying on topic, nerfing some builds won't do anything to make MF interesting at all. It was discussed a myriad of times in this thread. One of the latest nicely put explanation is here.

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reboticon wrote:

Nerfing what other people play won't help your drops in the least. None of these changes are necessary. Drop Rates should be Increased.

Unless I'm misunderstanding and the problem is that other people are getting drops, and you just don't want other people getting drops.

From a casual players point of view..I like to play melee in games like this and other RPGs having high IIQ and IIR as a melee character is near impossible if I want to be viable end game. I don't have the time to lvl multiple characters especially one with the sole purpose of MFing It isnt fair that I have to run docks for example 100 times more than a duel sporker for the same drops.

You are telling me I have to do something I don't find fun to enjoy the game at the same level and enjoy good drops? That is just stupid.

It's bad enough that RNG double/triple dips in shittyness but having to play a build that has the equivalent fun of watching paint dry to better my chances is sort of game breaking and a waste of time for me.

Just do what D3 did with Paragon, or just remove gear MF all together.

Hate having to lower my dps to fit in MF...

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Splib wrote:

I can't believe people are defending an insanely masochistic feature in Magic Find. There has to be a better way to handle this stat. I really love how Blizzard handled it with Paragon in D3.

That being said, I disagree with 97% of Blizzards design choices in D3 but they handled magic find beautifully.

I dont think Paragon was a good solution, NV stacks was bad too. Hey lets get numerous systems to fix our totally broken game!!!
They were too afraid to admit that they made a mistake and actually revert so people could play level 1-100 as intended.
Paragon was just medkit to fix the wound.

Always keep things simple.
MF'ing was an option in D2 too, but I kept playing my Vengeance paladin regardless.
For me, I want a build I like and one which I can farm quickly with also.

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Zaorish_9 wrote:

I agree with OP's sentiment.

But really I think the question is, do we need to nerf MF, or nerf Spokers? Perhaps by changing the spork gems so that they require more synergy to be strong, or just by nerfing Spell Totem Damage in general, the build diversity issue would be solved, and MF could become a more inteesting choice.

MF always ends up making OP builds more OP. Or put another way, gives a much greater reward for using an OP build.

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biralo wrote:

Hate having to lower my dps to fit in MF...

MF should be a bonus, but it's absense is really a penalty atm.
Survivability (lack of it) is already a huge penalty for hardcore play, but it is not so an issue for standard play. It is even being actively softened for standard play as well!
DPS is always fun, and the lack of it used to be penalty in D3 (enrage mechanics), but we see how that game ended, and Path of Exile, fortunately, doesn't provide any penalties for low dps.

Playing softcore, when choosing between MF and survivability and DPS, you get punished only for opting out of MF. Playing hardcore - it's both survivability and MF that you cannot opt out of. That's why softcore players have an overall more positive view about MF while sporkers become more and more dominant.

Let's take another look at this:
Strength - Dexterity - Intelligence is our big triangular choice in this game.
Armor - Evasion - Energy Shield is a corresponding defensive triangular choice.
Survivability - Movement Speed - DPS should be a correct corresponding utility choice.

Please note, how Magic Find doesn't fit any archetype at all.
Magic Find - Survivability - DPS could make sense, but remember D3 barbarian strike, that added drops on hits. Strength being the Magic Find felt not that great. Dexterity being the survival king fits great for me - but I think dexterity needs both evasion and armor on top of it to mitigate unavoided hits.

Survivability - DPS - Magic Find could also make sense - strong warriors tank, agile fighters do the pew pew, but do wise mages nothing aside from finding upgrades for first two categories? I could believe this is sane, but I dislike caster stereotype slightly and I still think it just pushes all mages up bottom.

Survivability - Magic Find - DPS fits best to me, but still it's laughable. Strong warriors tank, wise wizards do elemental pew pew and agile ninjas are too busy busting loot from the battlefield. Sorry, but my perception of Dexterity archetype is far from that.

Movement Speed - why was it skipped each time? Because it's neither mandatory nor particularly fun like DPS is. Just a very solid and comfortable bonus to have. Just like Magic Find should really be.

Survivability - Movement Speed - DPS - Magic Find So is it actually more like that - a square choice? No, as the total number of item affixes is limited to 6, MF tends to trump everything that can be opted out of. That's just bad in my opinion.

Dae, that post is both strangely interesting and utterly unintelligible to me. Could you clarify?