Remove MF completely from game
@Michaelangel007:
Hard to read an entire book in order to respond, but I did a quick visit to Koster's website. The one thing I got out of the site was the phrase "different fun for different folks," which I can agree is a good game design goal: you should have difficult PvE (where the reward is static challenge), easier PvE (where the reward is zoning out similar to watching television and picking up loots), PvP duels (where the reward is dynamic challenge), PvP racing (which combines the static challenge element of difficult PvE with some of the dynamic challenge from PvP metagaming), trading, and possibly a few more. Which really got me thinking that perhaps the "easy PvE" group isn't a proper target for hate. Yes, the "difficult PvE" group feels superior to them, and in terms of skill maybe they should, but do we ostracize people for enjoying to zone out watching television? I mean, think of the term "to farm" from an ARPG perspective. In a single syllable, it conveys simultaneously the expected low difficulty of the monster content one faces and the emphasis on the harvest... that's some mighty efficient diction. And perhaps "loving to farm" isn't something we should persecute. That said, what I said earlier about build diversity is still important. When I started posting in this thread, I was seeing it as a black and white thing. On the one side, you had a mod that 1) simultaneously promotes an alternative method to enjoy Path of Exile, which is most likely a good thing, and 2) is a direct attack on build dependency, which is almost definitely a bad thing. On the other hand, you had nothingness. Thus the conflict was "build dependency" vs "passive farming as a way to enjoy the game." When thrust into this false dichotomy, if forced to pick only one, I'd side with nothingness, because I believe build dependency is that important of a balance goal. My core logic was that the lack of build dependency also had serious economic implications which impacted not just "difficult PvE" but also "trading" as a way to enjoy the game; I was viewing the needs of two demographics as being more important than those of just the one, and thus became very antagonistic towards the one. However, this is truly a false dichotomy, as the Gifts from Above unique ring proves. It is possible to make build-dependent farming affixes which would provide a special something for the zoning-out crowd. So it's actually possible to serve all three demographics at once. Therefore, at this point this is the way I see it:
I guess this means that, technically, I now disagree with the original point of the thread: I don't believe that MF should be removed completely from the game, or even weakened numerically. If some cases, the numbers should even go up... but with specific, build-dependent requirements for getting those numbers to activate. --------------------------------------- @tanakea: What you mean by "boring gear" is a lack of build dependency in itemization (which actually also applies to maps and orbs themselves). And yes, I agree that it's a major issue. This is why I've stated numerous times that I believe the build-independent orbs should be made account-bound, while maps should remain tradeable but gain implicit mods (similar to rings and amulets) that favor certain builds over others. Together, these two changes would force more build-dependent trading valuations and fundamentally changing how trading works... but that's a bit of a derail to keep going down that rabbit hole. I think in general your post emphasized how MF affixes effect trading, something which I'm keenly aware of but do not want to transform this into a trading system thread, as there are numerous issues there far beyond the scope of this thread. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 20, 2013, 1:29:15 AM
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Now everyone is making a MF sporker. That's silly.
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" This ^ |
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Seems like the majority of you (at least on page 1) are against having dedicated MFing characters; I don't understand why. You have builds that are best at dps, builds that are best at tanking, and builds that are best at PvP. Why not have builds that are best at loot collecting? Personally, I find making MF dedicated characters really fun and would be very disappointed if MF were removed.
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I would like to see MF removed from all items but keep the MF gems IMO
There is much bigger trade off in using the gems than items with MF and there will also be a very controlled cap on how much MF you can get. Last edited by 2High2Care#3400 on Jul 21, 2013, 3:16:28 PM
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" Some players don't enjoy or have the time to make multiple characters. The other reason would be that it isn't possible to make IIQ and IIR work with every possible build. Maybe the solution is to keep IIQ and IIR, but pull those affixes off items and increase the customization of maps. |
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Looks like the topic is actually still hot, as people go on and continue other threads about Magic Find generally.
There were two rather interesting suggestions that I want to highlight here, in the main discussion thread. "I'll start with the second suggestion. I think that won't actually fix any melee/ranged disparity. On top of that, this will actively help sporkers build up their very first MF item set even easier. Overall, I see this suggestion is much more about having less RNG reliant crafting system, than Magic Find problem itself. But Your first solution is basically what this thread is about except for a specific orb that aims, in my opinion, to lessen RNG impacts when crafting. It may sound unappealing in its current form (sure, why bother having MF-Exalted Orb?) but the idea is quite interesting. I actually suggested a slightly similar idea of having MF as a function of item level and a number of sockets an item has at the bottom of page 37 earlier in this thread. I will put that in a spoiler here for convenience.
Magic Find as an explicit function of item level and sockets count
" These two quoted suggestions just show us how carefully Magic Find should be approached, as there are also Map Sustaining and Crafting System being two different mechanics but are pretty close. Any careless "fix" could tie these 3 mechanics into a Gordian knot, and that is exactly why I still stand for MF elimination from at least an affix pool for non-unique items. Support gems Item Rarity and Item Quantity appear to be an interesting choice, but in my opinion they actually aren't. They will either be must have (if Magic Find is to stay really powerful as it is now) trumping other choices, or absolutely useless (if IIR and IIQ is nerfed internally) being that every other choice is effectively better. >>EDIT<< I'll try to reiterate it as simply as possible. 1. Magic Find is directly buffing your rewards from playing the game. 2. Magic Find (as of PoE 0.11.2d) affects loot drop far too drastically to ignore/deal with. 3. Map Sustainability is also indirectly affected by IIQ as part of Magic Find via orb drops to roll maps. 4. Magic Find "eats" character power via replacing affixes on gear / links on items. 5. Magic Find favors builds that have low gear requirements and/or have high innate survivability. 6. You can choose to play a tanky character, or a powerful dps character, but will you ever opt out of playing an actually rewarding character (being MF-stacked one)? You will at least attempt to mix the extremes, thus... 7. Magic Find strongly affects (and limits) your build choice. 8. Sporker (Dual Spark/Fork Totem) is the current build with Magic Find being put into extreme case. Last edited by Daefecator#4146 on Jul 22, 2013, 7:07:53 AM
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"PvE and loot collecting are the exact same thing. Tanking isn't an actual task, it's just a novelty, what matters is how well they're doing the actual job. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" I would like to know how many there are. I love the new thread of the guy running a full Shavronnes MF build and posting the results. Standard Forever
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I'm sure lots of people still play MF sporker. I dust off mine if i get low on currency, but I just got sick of playing totems.
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