Remove MF completely from game

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thrashbeer wrote:

it will just make builds with insane killspeed even more popular, in my opinion.

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Daefecator wrote:

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thrashbeer wrote:

it will just make builds with insane killspeed even more popular, in my opinion.

You will still need survivability, at least for Hardcore. You will balance stats that are feasible in the game of the ARPG genre. Magic Find actually lacks sense. What's the point of everything else in the game, when you have the I-WIN-stat that MF is?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

area is a maze doesnt provide mf. Just more mobs to kill. You sound like you are implying it benefits players the same way magic find stats do, but it is the opposite.

No, I'm implying explicitly saying it's an all-but-required map affix, in the same way that IIQ is in all-but-required gear affix. It really hurts itemization diversity when, regardless of the build you've chosen, there's a certain affix that is best for everyone.

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LostForm wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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LostForm wrote:

area is a maze doesnt provide mf. Just more mobs to kill. You sound like you are implying it benefits players the same way magic find stats do, but it is the opposite.

No, I'm implying explicitly saying it's an all-but-required map affix, in the same way that IIQ is in all-but-required gear affix. It really hurts itemization diversity when, regardless of the build you've chosen, there's a certain affix that is best for everyone.

If IIQ is so heavily required, why do players want a map mod that does not provide IIQ? Because it is more beneficial to simply kill more monsters faster than to stack mega rewards per kill.

I get that you get more mobs for your map, which are rare, but if IIQ so clearly trumps kill speed as you imply, than no way would you sacrifice a mod that supplied IIQ for more mobs to kill.

The very fact that area is a maze is all but required on maps shows there is a advantage to killing more mobs faster. Removing magic find from the game will only compound the existing advantage of killing more enemies faster provides better returns than slower/less kills with higher bonus per kill.

I think a much more subtle approach is adding negative IIR/IIQ to key nodes and skill gems and items.
You want an extra safe play style added by a key node? Fine you have less IIR/IIQ as a base attached to the key node.
You want to kill entire screens in seconds using a very strong skill in game, ok but it is going to have some negative IIR/IIQ atttached to that skill gem.
You want to put on such and such uber unique, perfectly ok, go flex on them mobs, but you will have a -IIR/IIQ bonus attached to your uber unique item.

It is a great tuning screw to allow rediculously strong playstyles/skills/items in game. Sometimes you just want to go out and poop all over everything. It should be supported by the game, just not game breaking, and thus when you kill things faster or safer than 'average' due to a unique, or key node, or skill gem you reap slightly less rewards without compensating with extra magic find gear. Thus, if you want unbalanced, you have to chase unbalanced, leaving you balanced by a different factor. And still allows for finding/crafting ridiculous rares that raises the tide as a whole for your character power.

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Hovergame wrote:

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Evlesoa wrote:

For the 43rd time, no one wants to play the game 4 times as long as someone who can multibox and IIR the crap out of this game. Unlike you, people have lives. I know this is a hardcore game, but it's not fun when you're forced to farm non-stop to get items to progress. That's not what an ARPG is about.

Ok, kid, I'm a little tired, I'm just back from one week in Grenoble and Paris for my job (I live in Belgium, I really "enjoyed" the 7 hours in the trains and almost no Internet for a wekk), I will just tell you : STFU about what you don't have a clue.
I have something like 100h played in Onslaught (and my way of playing is very far from the most efficient way), I'm level 76 and I don't play a Spork build, No you are not forced to farm non-stop (unless you're really bad) or a Mf build (unless you are really really bad).

And you don't even need a really good gear in this game to progress, the best players can be almost 70 after ONE DAY of play, less than 30h. What do you expect, be level 80 after 30h of noob play ? Again, you are a noob who cannot find a good way of playing, and you are complaining about the difficulty instead of becoming better. Congratulations, you just proved it with your message.

You don't find the game fun ? Don't play it. Don't like to farm ? Don't farm.


PS D3 removed MF and use Paragon, D3 lost hundred of thousands (millions ?) of players. Anybody giving D3 as an example really wants this game to die.

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iamstryker wrote:

You seriously have a big problem with other peoples opinions don't you? Its not the end of the world if other people disagree. No need to take a dump on everything other people say that you disagree with. Just respectfully disagree and discuss like an adult, thats what the forums are really here for. Not to freak out over every person who doesn't have your opinion.

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Muldeh wrote:

I think rolling maze is less about earning fast loot than it is about sustaining your map pool..

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LostForm wrote:

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Muldeh wrote:

I think rolling maze is less about earning fast loot than it is about sustaining your map pool..

entirely my point. You roll maze because it returns more loot (maps) per map on average, even though it offers zero bonus quality, simply more monsters to kill. It perfectly illustrates that simply killing more monsters is a better way to get loot in game than killing less monsters at possibly much higher magic find stats.