Remove MF completely from game

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Now onto your claim. First off, if you're really doing 5 times the speed of spork totem (which is more of a safe build than a fast one anyway), then you're probably gearing wrong; I'd have trouble believing your couldn't regear to something that, say, kills 3 times as fast with 100% more IIQ. Which would be just... better.

Nah, better is a subjective term.
I won't gimp myself for IIQ&IIR, I play what I find enjoyable.
Slowing down for more MF isn't my idea of fun. I play this game for fun. That's the bottom line.

I respect your humility in saying certain aspects of the game aren't your forte.
Like I said, you are one of the good posters.

My mindset is that "subjective" and "quantifiable" generally don't mix. Or perhaps that "subjective" doesn't mix with anything, and "quantifiable" mixes with everything. Even fun; I wonder what the appropriate unit of fun is, for measurement purposes, and how one would go about measuring it.

In any case, I feel we can agree that maximizing MF mods pulls players away from pursuing fun in exchange for more loot, which is kind of the opposite of good game design — we should be rewarding players for doing fun things, like fighting monsters which they can barely handle and winning the fight while barely escaping with their lives. If you ask me, the fun vs reward conflict is the best possible reason for re-evaluating the purpose of MF mods, if not eliminating them completely.

No one is forced to run MF builds.
I don't agree, because I don't believe MF to be optimal to my gameplay experience.
If others want to play these shitty boring cookie cutters, idgaf.

What I don't like, is people trying to make the game narrow, rather than wide.

I've already stated many times, I don't spec for MF. I find heaps of good gear. I'm giving away uniques and 5L's etc on a daily basis. This issue is again, *sigh* a L2P issue.

Don't like MF? Don't run it.

Don't want to go broke rolling maps? Throw an alc on it and just do it.

The way people can be so opposed to the "crafting" system for equipment, yet happily throw all their currency away on map rolling, confounds me. It's the same fucking thing, but maps are consumable, so even less worthy of "crafting".

Are any of you thinking? I know a few are, but not the masses.

You think every player and every build is capable of stomping maps at such a fast clip that magic find isn't needed?

Even if some can, as we all know OP archers can one/two shot everything. That doesn't prove that magic find is balanced at all. Can melee players do that?

I think Herpy's attitude is best expressed as "life without MF is possible, and if it isn't broke, don't fix it."

And I'll admit, I don't think it's "broke;" I'm not claiming that map progression without MF stacking is impossible. However, MF affixes are clearly bent, the incentive to take them is too strong, similar to the reason people reroll maps until Labyrinthine shows up. You don't have to do that, but it helps, and you progress faster if you do.

Let's be honest: we try to fix a lot of things that aren't broke around here. Melee, for example. You can make it work; it's just that before it was very difficult, and even now it's tricky. Or self-found; that's not broke either, but trading represents a huge advantage and is far, far more efficient on average than farming yourself.

So I guess my response is, "I know it's not broke, we should fix it anyway." I understand your overall conservatism when it comes to balance changes, but this is a clear example of OP, and although you've done well "going rogue" that's not a reason to dismiss the situation.

While you are not claiming map progression without MF stacking is impossible, I do.

I was unable to progress further than level 87 without Magic Find. At that point I could not even sustain level 70 maps.

Edit: I was using alch&go strategy + have troubles actually finding alchemies. At that point in the game I was sinking in fusings, but it was pretty hard to trade them for alchemies.

Edit2: My build definitely roflstomped maps but I had zero MF, and I was blocked from progress.

Just to clarify my qualms with magic find have nothing to do with map progression. I am perfectly happy throwing an alch on a map and running it. I don't spend much currency on rolling maps.

I think without Magic Find
- every build could have the potential to gear up naturally
- the game could be played with friends without restricting themselves from loot
- item hunting would be more about actual hunting from killing monster and less about abstract treasure finding out of nowhere.

The difference of dropped items expecially uniques from ir/iq 0% to 180/60 is very high and thats not a high number , only mine mf from selffound items. So (mostly)a ranged character who searching for more iq/ir all day long has a huge advantage and thats not good for the economy. Exactly like in diablo 3 in the beginning, anyone remember the op rangers who completely destroyed the economy?. Look at the trade chat 200 alch for an exalt , few months ago it was 14-15 chaos. Its more rewarding to do a map with high iq/ir than 10 maps without. Before i raised my iq/ir i found maybe 1 unique in 2or3 weeks in countless maps and lunaris3 runs , now 1 unique every 3-5. Its just has a too big impact even with my , in comparison low numbers.

Nice to see a lot of people agree.

I also very much dislike MF, as it's essentially mandatory.