In response to how "GGG always addresses anything Evasion related"

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"But the problem with evasion is getting 1-shot....."

The problem with any armor type is getting 1-shot. This is not evasion specific. Ar/ES characters can get 1-shot too.

With the current entropy system, getting 1-shot with an evasive character is so easy it's guaranteed (pun intended). The guaranteed hit mechanic, evasion entropy, is what causes this.

Getting 1-shot is a problem of monster dmg, not evasion.

I simply want evasion to work.

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thepmrc wrote:

Think about it like this, in a situation where you get stunlocked with entropy you are likely to get stunlocked with pure RNG, this is plain simple fact.

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In addition you are JUST as likely to get hit by several consecutive hits and simply die instantly as you are to dodge several consecutive hits to avoid the stuns. Do you see how your argument for pure RNG evasion doesn't make sense? With 50% chance to evade you are JUST as likely to get hit 3 times in a row as evade 3 times in a row, and the odds are actually that you just get hit every other time like with entropy.

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Sickness wrote:

Yes, they could be. But it's not reliable. If you can get stunlocked with the entropy system then it's obvious that it's very likely that you would be stunlocked even without the entropy system.

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Indeed. But it's too likely that you will be stunlocked for it to be any less useless.

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In practise there is no difference between "high chance of stunlock" and "guaranteed stunlock".

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You are really not helping evasion when you are going after the entropy system.

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discrider wrote:

This is obviously not the case.

This is all dependent on attack speeds and stun recovery, but take for example 50% evasion where you'll be stunlocked if a second hit occurs within two attacks of the first.

With entropy, 50% evasion leads to hit-miss-hit-miss-hit-miss...death, as each 2nd attack connects.

Without entropy, 50% evasion leads to (say) hit-hit-miss-hit-hit-hit-miss-hit-miss-miss-escape. Sure, that beginning concentration of damage is likely to be larger than the character was expecting, but the 50% chance to hit ensures that the character will eventually get a reprieve and be able to escape so long as he can soak the damage until then.

50% RNG evasion gives the character a 50% chance of chaining two misses in a row and being able to escape. The number of hits to that point will vary, but in all the RNG evasion will have these peaks of damage and troughs of reprieve and escape which entropy will never give you.

Again, this is all dependent on stun recovery time and the number and speed of incoming attacks, as the more attacks that can be made within the stun window, the less likely an RNG streak of misses that can fill that window is, and the more it approximates the entropy stunlock cycle. But lets be clear here, the entropy system is the worst possible result for the evasion character because a break in the stunning hits will never come, and he will have to rely on pots or some other stun mitigation to get himself out.

Really the only people that the entropy system benefits are people who do not increase their accuracy, as 1 in 20 of their shots will always hit regardless of their stats, as opposed to an RNG system where they might be plinking away for some 50+ shots before connecting with one mob.

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keyarchan wrote:

Purely mathematically speaking pure rng is better than entropy when you have high evasion, while entropy is better with low evasion.
Lets say you somehow reach 90% evasion. With entropy, you will be hit every 10th hit, guaranteed.
With pure rng the odds of you getting hit at least once within 10 hits is ~65% which means it's likely to happen, but definitely not guaranteed.

With low evasion the opposite is true though. with 10% evasion you'll evade every 10th hit with entropy while with pure rng the odds of you evading at least once is only ~65%, which yet again is likely to happen, but not guaranteed.

Which in the end means, if you're above 50% evasion pure rng would be better while if you're below, entropy is better.
Though, like I said, this is purely mathematically speaking.

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engqvist85 wrote:

But the likelihood of getting 1-shot is exactly the problem. It's the reason evasion isn't viable. Changing it to an RNG system won't do anything about that at all, it'll just make it more random (obviously). If you run armour, you can prevent almost any physical 1-shot save for a select few stupid things like Kole. With IC you can have so much ES that your pool is just bigger than almost any single instance of damage that anything can deal, plus you're free to run two or three granites so you effectively have a constant 6-10k armour.

An evasion build is more or less mutually exlusive with armour and ES from items, you won't be able to wear hybrid gear if your goal is to focus on avoidance. You still need to use life flasks, however, and you'll probably have even less life than an armour build would. This would be fine if the damage levels were similar to other games, but it's not -- PoE's damage is retardedly out of order and just completely absurd. It's the elephant in the room that causes almost every single problem with the game, including the fact that evasion is rendered unviable due to the fact that you can't survive the hits you inevitably do take.

Most games have gameplay based on sustainability survival. They're about being able to survive the general incoming damage, not the size of the individual hit. In most games, 50% mitigation is as good as 50% avoidance because getting hit once is not what kills you, it's taking too much damage throughout the fight. If you have 10k life and mobs hit for 1-2k, 50% evasion is basically as good as 50% mitigation. If you have 4k life and many thing can hit for 5k base damage, 50% evasion is completely worthless in a game where evasion and mitigation are pretty much mutually exclusive.

That's another part of the problem: defensive stats being mutually exclusive. In other games, mitigation comes from the fundamental properties your armour while avoidance comes from additional affixes on your items or from other sources entirely. I actually can't think of another game that does it like PoE does. Having three mutually exclusive primary defensive stats is the root of the problem because it makes it impossible for most builds to raise two of those stats to a sufficient number. You can't really play CI if half your gear is evasion, you can't play evasion with armour gear, you can't wear evasion gear if your build is designed around getting high armour... well, except for the Iron Reflexes wildcard which is tacked on in order to partially band-aid this problem and at least give you the option of just cheating and turning your evasion stuff into armour.

Changing the entropy system to RNG will do nothing unless the entire damage system is also overhauled. That's the central issue of PoE, the thing that breaks everything. Evasion would probably be fine if not for the fact that mob damage is universally too high by an order of magnitude. It's the reason people stack armour and life to absurd extents, it's the reason so few builds are endgame viable, it's the reason the game is in rapid decline and has been hemorrhaging players for a quarter of a year. Most people don't like playing a game where the difficulty is completely artificial and takes the form of just having mobs do way too much damage, and most people don't like finding that their seemingly sensible builds don't work because of poorly designed game mechanics.

PoE has a serious problem that, if unchanged, will cause the entire game to collapse at some point when people get tired of being forced to play tanks and of getting 1-shotted on a regular basis, but that problem is not evasion. The unviability of evasion is just a consequence of that problem.

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SoujiroSeta wrote:

Are both of you saying that entropy evasion = rng evasion?

A calculated systematic mechanic will always yield the same result as a random number generator?

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SoujiroSeta wrote:

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Indeed. But it's too likely that you will be stunlocked for it to be any less useless.

Where did you get that from?

So you're trying to predict what rng will do, and then saying that your prediction about a completely random system that could yield any result is correct?

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SoujiroSeta wrote:

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In practise there is no difference between "high chance of stunlock" and "guaranteed stunlock".

High chance of stunlock and guaranteed stunlock?

What do you mean? Are you saying that rng is "high chance" and entropy is guaranteed?

If yes, once again another assumption. Who is to say you'll get stunlocked with rng? When you can have hit miss miss miss miss hit. Heck who is to say you'll get hit at all? So why the assumption?

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SoujiroSeta wrote:

I keep hearing about how entropy is good and better than rng. Yet all I'm left with is the statement "Entropy is good", without any realistic PoE situations, and worst of all assumptions are made about rng to make it look bad. Such as saying "this is what will happen with rng". As if to say you can predict rng.

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SoujiroSeta wrote:

This is something those arguing against rng seem to miss. They always state the outcomes of rng as if they are set in stone.