In response to how "GGG always addresses anything Evasion related"
" Phase run isn't in the game anymore Are you talking from a "if it were" perspective? I'm not really sure i understand what you're trying to say. |
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There are stun-avoidance passives in the dexterity area of the tree, practically right next to the ranger's start location; if stun-lock is so much of a problem, perhaps investing in those might help?
That said, wading into the middle of a pack is meant to be armor's forte, not evasion's. Evasive melee should be just that - evasive. I have wandered through insanity;
I have walked the spiral out. Heard its twisted dreamed inanity In a whisper, in a shout. In the babbling cacophony The refrains are all the same: "[permutations of humanity] are unworthy of the name!" | |
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If you get stunlocked with entropy you would get stun locked the vast majotiy of the time without entropy aswell, making it equally useless. At the same time entropy prevents you from getting stunlocked in situations where you would risk getting stunlocked without it, making it a whole lot safer and better.
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" Stun avoidance works for everyone. It's not evasion centric. The unwavering stance + iron reflex combo is popular for a reason. Getting stunned as an evasive character is fine. Armor characters, without US, get stunned too. The problem is how the entropy system makes it so the stuns are chained together. You have a higher chance to get stunned as an evasive character cause you take 100% physical all the time. The tree is designed so evasion characters don't get a lot of health without traveling far. Which in turn defeats the purpose of trying to stack evasion. If evasion worked, you wouldn't get stunned as much, and won't need to practically roll a marau-ranger to survive. You also wouldn't need as much health as a tanky armor character either. You will still get stunned, but not guaranteed stunlocked all the time. Also, should everyone who rolls an evasion toon be forced into taking the stun avoidance nodes in the ranger? That's akin to making them mandatory passives? You don't have to wade into the middle of any pack to get hit with an evasive character. The moment you pull aggro they will come to you. At some point you're gonna attack. If you're ranged then you're fine. Melee....not so much. Also, you are talking about evasion through movement, not evasion the defense mechanic. Everyone uses movement as a reactive evasive defense. This has nothing to do with the entropy system not working as a defensive mechanic |
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" Pre-patch my ranger was at 4.8k life and I didn't go to the marauder start. Not a ton, but enough to not get stunlocked by anything but charging dudes (that stun regardless) Damage mitigation? " It has nothing to do with evasion, it has a lot to do with getting 'stun locked' as you were complaining about. Damage mitigation will reduce the incoming damage so it is less likely to stun.... You don't 'need' to, but using granite flasks is always a good idea. " What? You can't stack evasion and life? Last I checked you can stack life and evasion on every piece of gear. You also have plenty of access to HP as a ranger and plenty of access to evasion nodes. You are correct in saying that you sacrifice one for the other in some cases, but this is where you as a player need to come to a good balance, which is very very very possible. " hmm, who would have though that diversifying would have been better. Every heard of diminishing returns? | |
" Getting stunlocked with entropy =/= getting stunlocked with rng Entropy complements chain stunlocking because of guaranteed hits in a sequential order. The hits that would have stunned you in a guaranteed hits sequence could be completely avoided with pure rng. Getting stunned is fine, evasion should not grant stun immunity, chain stun locking is the problem, and this happens because of entropy. So getting stunlocked with entropy cause hits are guaranteed doesn't not mean getting stunlocked with rng in the exact same situation. " Which situations are these? Last edited by SoujiroSeta on Jun 14, 2013, 12:34:45 PM
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" Think about it like this, in a situation where you get stunlocked with entropy you are likely to get stunlocked with pure RNG, this is plain simple fact. In addition you are JUST as likely to get hit by several consecutive hits and simply die instantly as you are to dodge several consecutive hits to avoid the stuns. Do you see how your argument for pure RNG evasion doesn't make sense? With 50% chance to evade you are JUST as likely to get hit 3 times in a row as evade 3 times in a row, and the odds are actually that you just get hit every other time like with entropy. | |
" Yes, they could be. But it's not reliable. If you can get stunlocked with the entropy system then it's obvious that it's very likely that you would be stunlocked even without the entropy system. " Indeed. But it's too likely that you will be stunlocked for it to be any less useless. In practise there is no difference between "high chance of stunlock" and "guaranteed stunlock". " If you would be stunlocked by two hits in a row but not if its 'hit miss hit', for example. You are really not helping evasion when you are going after the entropy system. Last edited by Sickness on Jun 14, 2013, 12:48:05 PM
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" This is obviously not the case. This is all dependent on attack speeds and stun recovery, but take for example 50% evasion where you'll be stunlocked if a second hit occurs within two attacks of the first. With entropy, 50% evasion leads to hit-miss-hit-miss-hit-miss...death, as each 2nd attack connects. Without entropy, 50% evasion leads to (say) hit-hit-miss-hit-hit-hit-miss-hit-miss-miss-escape. Sure, that beginning concentration of damage is likely to be larger than the character was expecting, but the 50% chance to hit ensures that the character will eventually get a reprieve and be able to escape so long as he can soak the damage until then. 50% RNG evasion gives the character a 50% chance of chaining two misses in a row and being able to escape. The number of hits to that point will vary, but in all the RNG evasion will have these peaks of damage and troughs of reprieve and escape which entropy will never give you. Again, this is all dependent on stun recovery time and the number and speed of incoming attacks, as the more attacks that can be made within the stun window, the less likely an RNG streak of misses that can fill that window is, and the more it approximates the entropy stunlock cycle. But lets be clear here, the entropy system is the worst possible result for the evasion character because a break in the stunning hits will never come, and he will have to rely on pots or some other stun mitigation to get himself out. Really the only people that the entropy system benefits are people who do not increase their accuracy, as 1 in 20 of their shots will always hit regardless of their stats, as opposed to an RNG system where they might be plinking away for some 50+ shots before connecting with one mob. Last edited by discrider on Jun 15, 2013, 1:00:21 AM
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Purely mathematically speaking pure rng is better than entropy when you have high evasion, while entropy is better with low evasion.
Lets say you somehow reach 90% evasion. With entropy, you will be hit every 10th hit, guaranteed. With pure rng the odds of you getting hit at least once within 10 hits is ~65% which means it's likely to happen, but definitely not guaranteed. With low evasion the opposite is true though. with 10% evasion you'll evade every 10th hit with entropy while with pure rng the odds of you evading at least once is only ~65%, which yet again is likely to happen, but not guaranteed. Which in the end means, if you're above 50% evasion pure rng would be better while if you're below, entropy is better. Though, like I said, this is purely mathematically speaking. IGN Hardcore: Muppman
IGN Beyond: TheTrueAuraBitch or BlixtarOchDunder |
