[1.0.1b] Summoner Guide / Minion Guide

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evilcloud5 wrote:

I am 100% sure BM do not stack. They're unrighteous fire is a debuff applied on you (enemy), and 2 or more of the same debuff can not stack on anything (Unless shock).

Also burning damage from the same source (in this case unrighteous fire) do not stack. Only searing bond is capable of doing this.

I have not tested this yet, but I think he summoned one BM with X supports, went back to town, changed some stuff around and summoned another BM spectre with Y supports, technically altering the degen of each one and *perhaps* making it possible for them to stack since they are not identical. If this is the case though, I would expect this kind of thing to be nerfed/fixed if it starts to get popular.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

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evilcloud5 wrote:

I am 100% sure BM do not stack. They're unrighteous fire is a debuff applied on you (enemy), and 2 or more of the same debuff can not stack on anything (Unless shock).

Also burning damage from the same source (in this case unrighteous fire) do not stack. Only searing bond is capable of doing this.

I have not tested this yet, but I think he summoned one BM with X supports, went back to town, changed some stuff around and summoned another BM spectre with Y supports, technically altering the degen of each one and *perhaps* making it possible for them to stack since they are not identical. If this is the case though, I would expect this kind of thing to be nerfed/fixed if it starts to get popular.

Only the stronger degen will take effect.

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evilcloud5 wrote:

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

"

evilcloud5 wrote:

I am 100% sure BM do not stack. They're unrighteous fire is a debuff applied on you (enemy), and 2 or more of the same debuff can not stack on anything (Unless shock).

Also burning damage from the same source (in this case unrighteous fire) do not stack. Only searing bond is capable of doing this.

I have not tested this yet, but I think he summoned one BM with X supports, went back to town, changed some stuff around and summoned another BM spectre with Y supports, technically altering the degen of each one and *perhaps* making it possible for them to stack since they are not identical. If this is the case though, I would expect this kind of thing to be nerfed/fixed if it starts to get popular.

Only the stronger degen will take effect.

Seems odd that people would run around with degen bears and BMs then, but maybe there is something there that I am missing.
Anyway, I was just explaining the only way I could think that there would be a stack-like effect, even if the stacks do not work they way we would want them too.

Degen bear and BM are two different debuffs, so they can stack. Tested myself on a high ES rare mob (degen bear is chaos and goes right through ES, while BM burning through ES). 2 degen bears or 2 BM can not stack.

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evilcloud5 wrote:

Degen bear and BM are two different debuffs, so they can stack. Tested myself on a high ES rare mob (degen bear is chaos and goes right through ES, while BM burning through ES). 2 degen bears or 2 BM can not stack.

Ah, okay, now I understand. Thanks. Obviously, I never even tried out that combo, so I guess I won't miss it if the nerf hurts quite a bit.

Oh wow I totally forgot about the skill: Frost wall

increased duration + frost wall(this can trigger EE as well)

Your BM's UR goes right past the wall while u can safety wall bosses away from you and kill them in a relatively safe position. This means I can drop my Warlords mark because am much safer now in favor or elemental weakness + vulnerability.

wow it really synergies well with the build.

Tried 2 arcmage with 1 BM, farmed effectively now at Lunaris. Really great combo so far.

Matt, the leap attack summoner looks pretty sweet. But realize one of your BM just raise the UR after like 5 min?

Really need to find a way to make them cast UR earlier.

Yeah its really annoying but there is no way to make them use UR.

I dropped my Bones of Ullr for a more defensive piece. Just using 1BM and 1Frenzy Gorilla.

TL;DR Executive Summary: Minion Life DOES increase the damage of UF, as does Increased Burning Damage. Minion Damage and Remote Mine do not materially affect the damage of UF.


I had a bit of time and tested out BMs/specter gem combos. All tests were conducted using one Act 3 Normal BM from Lunaris 2 vs Cruel Twilight Strand Hillock. I made sure the BM had turned on unrighteous fire before getting to Hillock. No auras, curses or summoner uniques were used. All gems were level 16. I started my stopwatch as soon as the BM lit up Hillock. Of course, I did not attack Hillock at all with my summoner.

Baseline: Unsupported Raise Spectre Gem

Run 1- BM kills Hillock in 26.97 seconds
Run 2- BM kills Hillock in 26.99 seconds
Run 3- BM kills Hillock in 27.11 seconds

Combo 1: Raise Spectre + Minion Life support gem

Run 1- BM kills Hillock in 20.95 seconds
Run 2- BM kills Hillock in 22.32 seconds
Run 3- BM kills Hillock in 21.25 seconds

FINDING: Minion Life support gem increases the damage done by UF.

Combo 2: Raise Spectre + Minion Life + Increased Burning Damage

Run 1- BM kills Hillock in 14.00 seconds
Run 2- BM kills Hillock in 14.90 seconds
Run 3- BM kills Hillock in 14.63 seconds

FINDING: Increased Burning Damage support increases the damage of UF

Combo 3: Raise Spectre + Minion Damage

Run 1- BM kills Hillock in 25.95 seconds
Run 2- BM kills Hillock in 26.92 seconds
Run 3- BM kills Hillock in 26.78 seconds

FINDING: Increased Minion Damage support does not materially affect UF damage

Combo 4: Raise Spectre + Remote Mine

Run 1- NA (Hillock kills BM in 22.35 seconds)
Run 2- BM kills Hillock in 26.20 seconds
Run 3- BM kills Hillock in 26.55 seconds

FINDING: Remote Mine support does not materially affect UF damage.

Didn't have time to test out a few other scenarios, for example using 2 BMs with different support gem combos (expected finding: degen damage should not stack based on game mechanics). Maybe tomorrow if I have time.

Hey Dessloc, thank you as always or taking your time to actually test the waters.

If what your saying is true, The chober/sidhe item swap is a gigantic boost. and the 2 10% minion life nodes near the +1 spectre is worth more than the minion damage(I thought 30% was a gigantic boost to zombies)

Am assuming this is why everything pretty much insta dies with just 1 curse.