Life is King...and we need a bloody revolution.
" I actually did like that idea but forgot to mention that, as a moderator, I am probably too sensitive to things like 'realism' and 'doable'. I talk to the devs on occasion and I know better than to even fantasise about things that would probably take too much humanpower to effect. As it is I'm asking something pretty big of the GGGang here. I think your idea is awesome -- but why not just make it life-gain-per-level, given that you will be taking a passive node each level and in your system that means gaining life every level? I think it'd work if different node types gave different life values but again that'd take forever to GGG to test and balance. Forever... My idea shouldn't be too hard to balance, really. All you're doing is consolidating the standard life gain required to survive (which is currently too much, of course) with the neglected defence nodes. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
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" Or you could increase base life, reducing the required amount of life nodes to survive, and then nerf the life nodes, so they aren't overwhelmingly OP compared to everything else. I understand that GGG at this point can't change gear (no more wipes) so Ilm suggesting: * All life nodes halved, most from 8% to 4% (only one, Marauder 13%, is odd, gets rounded down to 6%) * flat life gains from passive tree (such as +20 node in shadow area) doubled * life per level to 12 from 6 * life per Strength to 1 from 0.5 * starting life to 40 from 50 (all classes get minimum +7 starting life from Strength change). Sample low-level Marauder development: * Level 1: 70 life vs previous 65. * Level 2: 87 life if taking life node, vs 81 if taking it before change. 82 life if taking melee damage vs 71 before change. * Level 3: Going life then life, 104 life vs 94. Life and melee, 100 life vs 88. Double melee, 94 vs 77. See how taking non-life nodes is far less punishing under this system? Please note that life affix on gear will be multuplied less and thus have less impact. For example, same level 3 marauder but with two +25 Coral Rings: * Two life nodes: 159 vs 154 * Life/melee: 153 vs 144 * Two melee: 144 vs 127 Much steeper curve on right (old) side than left (proposed) side. This is also why life values are higher without life gear under proposed solution (less impact means need more without them). When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 19, 2013, 12:59:21 AM
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You force me to come over here while I don't mind your idea, because I'm such a duelist fan but this would make duelist extremely OP. Evasion is great for heavy hitters and armor is great for small hits, add life to those nodes duelist can tank all attacks and has a big life pool while doing it.
I personally think (making me rewrite my god damn thread but less detail *shakes fist*) armor needs to be more effective. Change end charges to give flat armor, flatten formula out so it doesn't require 100k armor to withstand the hardest hits. Don't make armor king, but make it more effective against hard hits. Make armor users more dependent on armor, less on life (or at least feel armor is relatively as good as life). Maras become armor or mitigation tanks (armor, block, res). Evasion users become life tanks as one miss evade at the wrong time equals a one shot death, they need to handle the large bursts of damage. Use your idea of evasion/life nodes with some shit like thick skin nodes, also give rangers a "troll/golem blood" type node (possibly remove mara's). Rangers become life tanks. This way duelist becomes as they should, which is a class that uses some mitigation but because they have less they can depend on their life pool in tough spots. All classes work out, mara will be nerfed but for the greater good. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 | |
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Moo, you are never too good to interact with the beta folks. Seriously.
I can't speak to armour -- that's your thing. I think thick skin nodes for evasion might be a good idea. Anything that reduces overall life% nodes and thus encourages spending in evasion nodes themselves...but my idea would do that more effectively. Also, I did express some concern that hybrids might be overpowered by this. Duelist seemed the obvious candidate. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable. Last edited by Foreverhappychan on Feb 19, 2013, 3:30:07 AM
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" I get you now. I really like this but I have a few issues with it. It excludes any sort of energy shield or evasion changes, other than 'you don't need to take as many life nodes now' The other issue is it buffs strength users a little too much imo. But on the big plus side this would definitely be easier for GGG to implement than anything else suggested so far. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
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" Your writing style is very whimsical, but I like it! What I don't like is your base proposal. I don't think that we should be getting entirely rid of life nodes, I just think that the alternatives should be better. So I would support small hitpoint bonuses (+3%) to some of the ES, Armor, and Evasion nodes as well as having the last two ES nodes in the center ES wheel give +12% instead of +8%. I like all three proposals as long as they're subtle. Keep the HP nodes where they are, and implement these proposals to allow a second option. PS: Energy Shield gives a 50% chance to ignore stun, so stun is mostly an issue for CI users, not the hybrid ES user. PPS: "Acceptable" life is more around 220-260 for hardcore by level 85, I think. But I don't think we should remove life nodes, just increase the opportunity cost. | |
" I see no problem with that variant. Also, I think you're okay with my base proposal -- the removal of the life nodes was just a balancing issue. If all the defence nodes give life, retaining raw life% nodes would seem overpowered to me. Wait, you do mean 220-260% for the acceptable life right? If so, that seems crazy to me. I can imagine no build right now that does that and still has nodes left to do much else. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
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I agree so much with this.
Charan, are you aware on what the devs think in regards to the current life-tastic situation and if yes are you permitted to report on what they think? I'd be really interested in knowing. For me, McB's suggestion "seems" like the most straightforward to implement, and it's also the easiest one for me to perceive how it would all work - I do, however, totally get the points about it not adjusting ES at all and maybe giving Str builds too much of a boost. If we're talking defences here, though, maybe the other stats could get a defensive boost? Dex could give +1% eva per 3 points instead of 5, as an example, while Int gives +1% ES per 3 points. Would this be too much? ...Probably. I think. But I feel it's a necessary step in the right direction, and Dex/Int can be figured out after. I still feel like armour and evasion could be reworked or at least get some more support on the tree for non-life intensive builds, but I understand a rework probably won't happen this late in. |
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As a moderator, I am acutely aware of the fact that I get to interact with the devs now and then, but I still feel a suggestion thread such as this posed to the players is the best course of action.
Admittedly, if I KNEW GGG had any plans to address the situation, I wouldn't bother making the thread. I'd just wait and see. So the thread's existence sort of answers your query, Smiggins. I have emailed a link to Carl but goodness knows how busy that poor fellow probably is. I think this is a great thread -- not for what I've said, but for the totality of player contributions and the sheer number of feasible solutions proposed. I suppose the fact that a moderator made it resulting in far less troll-attraction and contribution doesn't hurt. I just feel this is something that's affecting everybody right now. To address your percentile buff: it might work but one of the goals of my suggestion is to encourage players to take those evasion nodes. Right now, there is zero reason to. Zero. They're a massive pitfall. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable. Last edited by Foreverhappychan on Feb 19, 2013, 2:02:09 AM
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" Defenses themselves aren't buffed, but my thoughts on that are: one thing at a time. Dethrone life as king and then see what happens in the power vacuum before working too hard on buffing this and that. On Strength, the change is actually justified at high levels. A level 70 character with 14 Strength currently has 477 base life, so getting 30 Strength adds 15 life which is about 3%. After the change, that same level 70 with 14 Str (and no life gear) has 894 base life, so adding 30 life is about 3%. The thing is that it's a little swingy at low levels where the 12 life per level hasn't had much effect yet. That's a concern, but not buffing it would be a slap in the face to lategame characters who dedicate to the stat, and unlike life affixes on gear (which are very stealthnerfed by all this) I wasn't willing to flip that aspect of marauder melee the finger. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 19, 2013, 2:06:26 AM
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