Life is King...and we need a bloody revolution.

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NiceTry wrote:

I do not believe more HP should be added per level. If you do that, give me flat energy shield per level also. I disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that ANY energy shield node should include life %. It is a different life force in and of itself, and if you are CI, the added life on the nodes are useless, whilst being an IMMENSELY overpowering solution for hybrid builds. On top of that, CI is already broken enough as it is regarding status effects. Most of the suggestions here are buffing Life builds overall whether you see it that way or not, and completely eliminating what little use Chaos Innoculation or pure energy shield builds have right now.

Granted, a CI user can reach nearly the same ES values as a pure life build can reach Life because of ES gear without as many ES nodes as there are life nodes, but if you give ES nodes life %, you are not only encouraging people to stay away from CI, you are streamlining the difference in mechanics of life and energy shield, making hybrid builds the next King.

You are also forgetting that with a heavily invested energy shield character, CI or not, both armor and evasion values on those characters will inherently be drastically less than they are on a pure Life build, and this is because pure ES gear doesn't add evasion or armor and hybrid ES gear adds substantially less than pure armor or evasion gear.

I think many of the ideas here are taking the middle finger already being pointed at CI, and doubling it.

I do, however, think a rework for *SOME* of the life nodes in existence is in order, to perhaps add some armor or evasion% - evasion% on life nodes between duelist and marauder and armor% on nodes between templar and marauder, very similarly to the 'Nullification' and 'Body and Soul' node bubbles are for ES and armor/eva hybrid nodes. If this is done though, I believe some of the smaller more randomly placed life nodes in those areas should be removed, not not so many as to make life non-viable.

I admit to being confused. We said as part of the changes that the energy shield nodes around CI would be buffed. The addition of life to the other energy shield nodes would be more for non-CI users, who still need life against things such as Chaos.

Where precisely in our proposals is CI given the middle finger? If anything, it'd be buffed under the new system.

The life gain per ES node would represent the fact that not all mages that grow stronger do so purely with their energy shield. It would also make said nodes lucrative and attractive to EV/ES shadows.

I can't help but feel you've misinterpreted this thread as some sort of attack on CI, or perhaps because it didn't focus on CI you have taken umbrage at that. Please don't. The way I see it, CI can still be very attractive with increased ES nodes near it.

As for discouraging keystones, several of the ES/EV nodes are somewhat wasted when you take Acrobatics, so it's not as if CI is alone in the potential waste department.

The issue with hybrid builds being potentially overpowered by this has already been raised and while it has not be resolved, I do not believe it is grounds to dismiss any of the changes outright.

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Freezerg wrote:

This is why full company should make games, not a bunch of people. I guess they can hire more people to work on it and fix errors they made. Do not say that we need hp regeneration nodes on energy shield. Are you even serious? This is COMPLETELY different thing. It should not happen.
Besides, i can rebalance mob damage on the spot, in month, alone, and happily, without overworking. Just let me into the flat statistics. Hire me if you want, lol. Easy thing to do.

I never said put hp regeneration nodes on ES -- I said base life. Not even a percentage.

Your lack of reading comprehension, and the state of your replies, makes me increasingly disinclined to reply with any sort of effort.

As for your offer to work for GGG, do you live in New Zealand? That's their main criterion. Oh, and they generally don't like people who act arrogant and condescending. Just a tip.

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Charan wrote:

Moo, you are never too good to interact with the beta folks. Seriously.

I can't speak to armour -- that's your thing.

I think thick skin nodes for evasion might be a good idea. Anything that reduces overall life% nodes and thus encourages spending in evasion nodes themselves...but my idea would to that more effectively.

Also, I did express some concern that hybrids might be overpowered by this. Duelist seemed the obvious candidate.

I don't think I'm too good, I just feel like I'm part of the noise. My reply is completely lost in your thread and it's something I've been mulling over for months.

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Moosifer wrote:

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Charan wrote:

Moo, you are never too good to interact with the beta folks. Seriously.

I can't speak to armour -- that's your thing.

I think thick skin nodes for evasion might be a good idea. Anything that reduces overall life% nodes and thus encourages spending in evasion nodes themselves...but my idea would to that more effectively.

Also, I did express some concern that hybrids might be overpowered by this. Duelist seemed the obvious candidate.

I don't think I'm too good, I just feel like I'm part of the noise. My reply is completely lost in your thread and it's something I've been mulling over for months.

Your reply directly improved this thread, I feel. I'll probably close it soon anyway. I think it's reaching the end of its shelf life.

Also, your own writings on this matter? I am sure the devs are just as likely to see that as this. If not more so, all things considered.

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Charan wrote:

Your reply directly improved this thread.

Goes without saying, happens where ever I show up.

The simplest thing would be to change non-notable Life passives to a flat life boost instead of a percentage life boost. The percentage bonuses to Life should be rare.

The purpose is to make life scale closer to how other defensive attributes scale: with diminishing returns. Of course higher difficulties would need some toning down to keep things the same, but it would be worth the effort.

@Nicetry (CI guy):
My suggestions -- the increase base life ones, not really Charan's baby* -- actually help CI. CI bases stun chance and elemental status effect duration off your base life as if you didn't have CI, which in the world of +200% life builds means a lot of CI users have to deal with always having a 50% stun chance (that's after factoring in ES's 50% chance to avoid stuns) and always gettting max duration on elemental status effects. My proposed base life increases would shrink that problem into something more manageable, at the low, low cost of zero passives invested.

Nobody here is nerfing ES, so how you could construe it as an attack...

*@Charan:
I apologize for hijacking your thread, but the title is simply better than anything I've ever thought of. Before you close it though, any real chance of my suggestion here actually reaching dev eyeballls? I feel a lot more passsionately about this and have put more thought into it than any other work I've done here on the forums.

The problem I think nobody is seeing here is that you have to scale up life in order to play the game, but you don't have to scale up damage because your character is always doing enough damage based on skills/gear.

If you make it so the toons have to invest in DPS, then life stops being king. I suggest they lower the overall damage output of spells and gear, and make getting dps nodes more important to progression.

GGG would have to re-balance the life%, and damage% nodes, or simply adjust monster life... but I think that is a better way of going.

I do not lack any reading comprehension, i just do not feel to read bullshit and ideas put out from the bottom of somebody's nose, just to find easy stupid fix for big problem instead of making whole concept better with little more effort.

I have a suggestion. I can't type too much (lol watch me type a book) as i have to be off soon, but here goes.

My attemt at trying to come up with something that is easy to implement. Making the other defenses stronger, and giving people the option to invest in defense or offense, as you said charan. Except mine is different.

It involves buffing and nerfing monsters, while also nerfing life nodes in certain portions of the tree.

I'll explain.

I can't remember everything, so i'll probably make several mistakes.


1. Nerf life nodes (halfed) in maruader/duelist/templar/ranger side of tree.
-8% should become 4%, 12% - 6%, 10% - 5%: These classes can accumulate a lot of str to help their HP pool increase even further. With the other changes I'll propose, keeping the nodes at their current values would be too much.

2. Buff life nodes near witch/shadow by 2%.
-8%-10%, 10%-12$, 12%-14%. When you go evasion, you need to be tankier than a maruader. They don't have str to help either, so the current nodes aren't doing them much good.

3. Decrease dmg of white/blue/rare monsters slightly.
-White mobs, imo, hit a bit too hard. Their dmg should be decreased by 35%. Blues by 20%, and rares/uniques by 15%.

4. Increase/decrease crit chance and crit multiiplier of monsters (white/blues/rare/unique)("What?!?!?! you want to buff monsters?!?!?". Wait, lemme finish).

White monsters should have the highest crit chance with the lowest crit multiplier. Blues, lower crit chance than whites, but higher crit multiplier. Rares, lowest crit chance, highest multiplier. (ofcpurse this will also be dependent on the monster type. White rhoas with 35% dmg reduction, higher crit chance, and lower mult would be be broken. Monster type and abilities would determine how high crit chance/mult will be. Arch mages, rhoas, chargin guards, etc monsters with "certain attacks" that are too good would be handled differently. This suggestion is for the basic "im going to attack you with a basic skill" mob (normal archer, melee mobs, etc)


What happens when all these are mixed together?

(1)Marauder/duelist/templars/ranger won't be able to accumulate as much health as they can now.

(2)Shadows and witches would be able to accumulate more health, which they certainly need. This way they can stack more evasion/ES than health.

(3)By decreasing dmg across the board for monsters, the avg dmg you would take from them overall would be less.
A. Whites would have a higher chance to crit than they do now, but lowest multiplier. Meaning although this would increase their ability for burst dmg, you would need a lot of them swinging at you and critting constantly. Damage reduction by 35%, highest crit chance and lowest crit multiplier would mean white pack mobs wouldn't hit as hard as they do on avg, but with a higher crit chance you are more susceptible to burst dmg against them. Although they would have the lowest multiplier. Meaning, they can go from harmless white mobs, to "if you get a lot of them swinging at you and they connect with crits you could die".

B. Blues, would have 20% less dmg overall, and would crit less often than they do now. This means less burts dmg from them, but when they do crit it will be harder.

C. Rares/uniques/bosses would deal 15% less dmg, and have the lowest crit chance but highest multiplier. Meaning less spike dmg from them, but when it spikes it can be all she wrote (not 1-shot, just very painful).


-Evasion would still be the same in this case, but slightly better. You don't want many monsters swinging at you to begin with,. With a second roll for crits, packs of whites enemies won't hit you as much assuming their attack fails the crit roll. (right now large packs of whites hit evasion characters too much. With higher crit chance they get a "2nd" roll so to speak.) Evasion would still not be the best against large pack cause when the crits go through (more of them with higher chance) you take 100% physical. Rares/uniques would remain evasion's strong point. They have less chance to crit, so their dmg range is more predictable (almost like armor with smaller hitting packs), and when they are about to deal a lot of dmg (highest multiplier) you get a second roll. More susceptible to burst dmg from whites, but with a second roll on crits dmg could be evaded. Blues/rares crit less often so dmg is more predictable, until their crit comes through.

-ES would soak up all the hits as usual. Essentially artificial life, you would want to stack it as it knows no bias when it comes to dmg types.

-Armor would be the best against whites/blues, and good against raes/bosses. The dmg reduction by 35% would mean less life needed to tank. Whites would crit more often, but with 35% dmg reduction and lowest multiplier you would know the range of dmg the mobs deal. Rares would be better to than they are now. Brutus won't crit as much as he does now, so you'll take more of his 15% reduced dmg. Ofcourse your armor would mitigate less, but 15% less dmg in general and less chance to crit would make it easier to withstand him with armor. When he crits....now that's a different story.




Life would be harder to stack for str characters or ranger who is also close to str based life stacking nodes. What this means is, since you can't get your life pool that high, the other defenses could be just as good, if not better.

More evasion or life - white monsters will crit more often, and that 2nd roll will be good. Rares/blues crit less, deal less dmg, so their dmg is more predictable. + when they do crit i get a 2nd roll.

More ES or more life - harder to stack life, easier to stack ES. More ES = more buffer = better

More Armor or more life - Can't stack as much life. White mobs, the most frequent in the game, which come in large packs crit more often than usual. Armor mitigates smaller hits better. Blues/rares crit less, deal less dmg, so my armor would be more effective overall. When they do crit, it will still hurt.


Life would be buffer, but not the absolute buffer.

I'm off to bed now. Probably wrote a bunch of jiggerish and terrible suggestions, but what can I say...