The Exiled Sale Recipe Book (spoilers)

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Interesting wrote:

One aspect of many that are lacking on this thread, but sharing now.

WISDOM SCROLLS + UNIDENTIFIED MAGIC PAY OUT AVERAGES
boots
23 item identified of that type = 65 alteration shards,4 wisdom shards,4 alchemy shards
gloves
13=41,1,0
helmet
20=48,5,4
belts
8=9,3,2 LOW PAYOUT
jewels
9=22,0,2


blue results over time
sample 1
58 = 122a, 14s, 6a
sample 2
63=168,20,4
sample 3
121=290,34,10

RESULTS per wisdom/magic item average total
2,39 alteration shards, 0.28 wisdom shards, 0.0826446280991736 alchemy shards
1 rare = 7-10 alteration shards

SO THE CHOICE IS BETWEEN:
1 WISDOM SCROLL + 2 TRANSMUTATION PER UNIDENTIFIED MAGIC OR 2.39 ALT SHARDs + 0.28 WIS SHARDs + 0.08 ALCHEMY SHARDs - 1 WISDOM SCROLL

OR 1 WISDOM FOR 7-10 ALT SHARDS PER RARE.

42-60 8 RARES WITH 8 WISDOM WHOSE ALTS ORBS(2 or 3) EXCHANGE FOR 8-12 WISDOM SCROLLS.

THE PRICE OF IDENTIFYING THINGS IS TOO EXPENSIVE IF I HAVE TO USE RECIPES TO GET WISDOM SCROLLS.

NEED TO WASTE 8.36 WISDOM SCROLLS + ACQUIRE 8.36 MAGICS BY MY OWN TIME AND EFFORT TO GET 1 ALT ORB THAT IF I USE TO GET WISDOM SCROLLS USING THE RECIPE ALLOWS ME TO BUY 4 WISDOM.
SO I GET A NEGATIVE PAYOUT OF -4.36 WISDOM SCROLLS.

NOW, IF IM BUYING WISDOM SCROLLS WITH ALTERATION SHARDS

IDENTIFY MAGIC ITEMS I END UP WITH A LOSS, unless the wisdom scrolls were for free/dropped/someone I scammed.

WITH RARES, AT WORSE I GET EVEN. AT BEST I GET 50% PROFIT PER RARE.

Unless someone is selling the unidentified magic for transmutation shards for a while, to make transmutation orbs to buy wisdom scrolls with, one run out of identify scrolls for rares/magic items when farming. Farming.

And thats going from waypoint to login screen, without using Portal Scrolls (or after acquiring the Portal Gem).

So yeah, this thread needs a lot of work on averages payout of item types. People cant even help the game improve or provide feedback without finding these truths out and understanding how something that wasnt broken, will be seen as broken.

Before people could just ignore blues, because rares were so much more common due to drop rates and so much more worthy due to recipes and because alteration shards were so less valuable then they are about to become.


So yeah, someone go and analyze the payout of identifying blues and rares based on item types individual payout, drop rates and mod lists available for that item type.

So that I can find out why belts are better to be sold without identifying and things like that, or why boots take precedence over other armor types...

It is not the intention of the thread to reverse engineer the RNG-systems of the game.

Your numbers do not look much off from what I have experienced. When that is said, it is a hard thing to balance since you have to look at droprates of items etc. before you find the real value.

Point in case:

A transmutation orb has a vendor-cost of 21 scrolls of wisdom.
The sale-value of a transmutation orb is 4 scrolls of wisdom.

On the other hand an orb of alteration has a vendor-cost of 336 scrolls of wisdom.
The sale-value of orb of alteration is 4 scrolls of wisdom.

The value of alchemy shards cannot be measured in the vendoring system, as shown by the 1 scrap of wisdom alchemy orbs sell for (The sale-value of alchemy orbs and most other orbs in the game can be critizised, though. It would seem fair for them to sell for 4 scrolls of wisdom.)!

I randomly choose your sample 3 to make my point since it is the most comprehensive. It includes 121 blue items which has a value of 242 shards of transmutation, which is about 12 transmutation orbs valued at 48 scrolls of wisdom if you sell them or 252 scrolls of wisdom if you had to buy them.

Your result from identifying the items was, lets call it, 14 alteration orbs (throwing away the 10 leftover shards), which is valued at 56 scrolls of wisdom if you sell them which is a loss of 59 (4*14+7-121) scrolls of wisdom. However, if you look at the vendor-cost, you have earned 4590 (14*334+7-121) scrolls of wisdom.
On top of that you got 10 alchemy shards that you cannot measure the value of directly.

The value from identifying is a loss of 107 scrolls of wisdom worth in orbs which is not worth it. But that assumes that scrolls of wisdom is the item you want to convert everything into. If you want to convert everything into alteration orbs you gain about 13 alteration orbs after removing the value of the 242 transmutation shards and the 59 scrolls of wisdom it cost you (59/336 and 242/320).

None of those ways of measuring the value is truely fair, but I think you get my point: The value of identifying is all about what you need. Alteration orbs or scrolls of wisdom will have different values compared to what you want and taking any of the vendor buy/sale-values as defacto standard is not an objective measure of the value. Thus it is not a real criticism of the shard-system.

As for item-types I think GGG needs to look at removing the worthless mods since they can screw up the value of different items. (You can meta instead of brute-forcing to increase the value of what you find out: Find the value of every mod able to spawn on said item, how often they occur and how often they are of maxed value. Then you can calculate a relative value between each item-type! Btw. Looking at weapons as a single category and even helmets, boots and armour as single categories is not a good idea since different items have different chance of spawning different mods based on what class they are intended for!) Belts are generally worth less because they can get a lot of mods without value assigned in alteration shards. The same thing is true for flasks.

*double post*

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radiatoren wrote:

The sale-value of alchemy orbs and most other orbs in the game can be critizised, though. It would seem fair for them to sell for 4 scrolls of wisdom.

They already do: but only in shape of full stacks... maybe a recipe for an reasonable trade for single alchemy orbs could be added? (dont care about 1:4 Alch/ID, what about an offer of 1 Chance, 1 TP and 1 ID for single Alchemy's? - raw idea, maybe too high)

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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radiatoren wrote:

The sale-value of alchemy orbs and most other orbs in the game can be critizised, though. It would seem fair for them to sell for 4 scrolls of wisdom.

They already do: but only in shape of full stacks... maybe a recipe for an reasonable trade for single alchemy orbs could be added? (dont care about 1:4 Alch/ID, what about an offer of 1 Chance, 1 TP and 1 ID for single Alchemy's? - raw idea, maybe too high)

The full stack recipe is a bit... well... Insufficient. When something sells for the value of 1 scrap of wisdom, it is impossible for players to know if it is intended, a bug or forgotten/"not yet added" by the developers. Selling for even 2 scraps of wisdom would be a better signal because it would mean that it is intentional and I doubt anyone gets fat from 2 scraps of wisdom instead of 1 for such itens (if they are indeed concerned, raise a wisdom scroll from 5 to 10 scraps of wisdom)!

As for using TPs, transmutation shards, alteration shards, chromatic shards, jeweler's shards or augmentation shards as the vendor-value for the alchemy orb, I don't actually care that much. Any of those are low value items with a good range of versatility and an almost complete vendor economy.

Orb of chance is a high value item with a high variance range that includes the potential for a higher upside than orb of alchemy. I think that is far too much value for a non-recipe sale. Divine orbs might sell for Orb of Chance, but then again, why sell those to begin with?

Vaal pyramid unique map vendors for chaos orb

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radiatoren wrote:

When something sells for the value of 1 scrap of wisdom, it is impossible for players to know if it is intended, a bug or forgotten/"not yet added" by the developers.

Selling for 1 wisdom fragment is very clearly a 'not implemented' (as in "every item that is not part of another recipe"). May be unintended/bug, of course.

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radiatoren wrote:

Selling for even 2 scraps of wisdom would be a better signal

While trading a bunch of items (what I guess is the most common situation), I bet most of the players not even would notice the difference.

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radiatoren wrote:

As for using TPs, transmutation shards, alteration shards, chromatic shards, jeweler's shards or augmentation shards as the vendor-value for the alchemy orb, I don't actually care that much.

I dont think that we need even more shard types of currencies.

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radiatoren wrote:

Orb of chance is a high value item with a high variance range that includes the potential for a higher upside than orb of alchemy. I think that is far too much value for a non-recipe sale. Divine orbs might sell for Orb of Chance, but then again, why sell those to begin with?

Wasnt the topic about the value of Alchemy's? I fully agree that there's a lack of recipes to value (most of the) single orbs when selling, and I hope it isnt the final stage on this. On the other hand, I have no issue with the difference between sell and buy prices at the vendors (you can buy an TP scroll for 7 ID's, but you dont get one if you sell the same amount) Its a bit about knowing how to deal with the vendors... only small issue is, that you have to travel between the towns for different offers.

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Orb of Chance
Recipe: 1 normal, 1 magic, 1 rare and 1 unique of same type
Reward: 5 Orbs of Chance (also unidentified)
Finder: Dentata

I'm updating the Unique Items List with a section for Vendor recipes that pertain to uniques. Is this really the only recipe that exists?

Has anyone tried the Chaos Orb recipe but with unique items? Has it beeen tried with 20% Quality unique items? Has it been tried with Unidentified 20% Quality unique items? Has the Map recipe been tried with the unique map? Has it been tried with an unidentified and/or 20% Quality map?

Not sure if this has been discovered yet but you can trade a combatant's sledgehammer for an alchemy shard.

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LordVitaro wrote:

Not sure if this has been discovered yet but you can trade a combatant's sledgehammer for an alchemy shard.

That's new. It used to be 1 Alteration shard.

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LordVitaro wrote:

Not sure if this has been discovered yet but you can trade a combatant's sledgehammer for an alchemy shard.

Yeah the recipes have changed or are bugged? Just now I got 1 Alchemy Shard for a Thunder Lord's Bronze Sceptre of Excitement, and yesterday from something like a Flame Spinners Axe of Wrestling.

Complicates the ident-or-not juggle for sure.

Edit: And another, Combatants Plank Kite Shield of the Wrestler.