Leave trading alone, don't waste resources on it

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Xtorma wrote:

Why do people feel they have to "work" in video games?

Yeah. That doesn't make sense to me either.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

"

Xtorma wrote:

Why do people feel they have to "work" in video games?

Yeah. That doesn't make sense to me either.

Inb4 "instant gratification", "casual", "WoW/D3 kids" or "entitled generation".

"

goetzjam wrote:

@imastryker

Standards economy is MUCH different then the temporary leagues, part of the disadvantage of playing in standard is the inability to sell items in the middle. However, that being said standard does have its advantages of, not grinding for maps all over again, less chaos > exalt, better ratios on alts, jews, fuses, ect. (if selling)

The economy in standard is just different, an automatic way of selling items won't help a player sell items they already have listed (at least in the long run)

Any advantage standard has doesn't make up for trading being horrible.

At the very least being able to trade offline would help the situation for the sellers. Regardless, sellers shouldn't feel that they have no other option than to spam trade chat to try to find a buyer.

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Xtorma wrote:

Why do people feel they have to "work" in video games?

I would be fine with trading being work if the game had decent drops but as we all know it doesn't. Even now with this archaic system.. trading is still the best way to get anywhere in this game. GGG may as well implement a pseudo AH so that at least trading doesn't have to be so painful.

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Any advantage standard has doesn't make up for trading being horrible.

Ask yourself if trading is horrible for you just because your trying to sell items that won't sell in standard or because the system itself is bad.

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At the very least being able to trade offline would help the situation for the sellers. Regardless, sellers shouldn't feel that they have no other option than to spam trade chat to try to find a buyer.

What items have you sold by spamming trade chat that otherwise wouldn't sell when listed on the forums?


To me people complaining about not selling items on standard don't understand that because characters there NEVER lose items (with the exception of Vaal orbs) that you won't sell things all the time like you see HC streamers do or even people that play in temp leagues. As a player with many higher level characters I don't need a lot of things people would sell, the same applies to a lot of other players.

Trading is as painful as you make it and the system works as well as you want it to be. If you think its terrible, no matter what improvements have been made (like poe.trade getting better, procurement adding features, ect) then it will be terrible. If you can't sell something, then it is terrible. People blame the system of how to trade instead of why you are actually trading.

@xtorma

If everything was easy then the game wouldn't have a lasting affect. The little bit of "work" you do have to do (if you want to make a bunch of selling) is use a 3rd party app to create a forum template for a shop. Even then if you have just a few larger items you want to sell no need to use the program.

Best example I can use is D3 RoS, I picked it up on a Monday and had a complete crusader set by the end of the week doing the hardest difficulty, to me that isn't fun. Yes the character can have legendary gems and I can grind those up, but my gear will be relatively the same, as well as play-style, everything is handed to you in that game and it becomes boring MUCH quicker.

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goetzjam wrote:

"

Any advantage standard has doesn't make up for trading being horrible.

Ask yourself if trading is horrible for you just because your trying to sell items that won't sell in standard or because the system itself is bad.

The item won't sell because the system is terrible. In every other game I've played that has an AH (even D3 when it still did), you could sell anything--didn't have to be the highest quality item.

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What items have you sold by spamming trade chat that otherwise wouldn't sell when listed on the forums?

To me people complaining about not selling items on standard don't understand that because characters there NEVER lose items (with the exception of Vaal orbs) that you won't sell things all the time like you see HC streamers do or even people that play in temp leagues. As a player with many higher level characters I don't need a lot of things people would sell, the same applies to a lot of other players.

Trading is as painful as you make it and the system works as well as you want it to be. If you think its terrible, no matter what improvements have been made (like poe.trade getting better, procurement adding features, ect) then it will be terrible. If you can't sell something, then it is terrible. People blame the system of how to trade instead of why you are actually trading.

New players try the game every day, and they find currency that they would happily spend on a few upgrades if there was a trade system in place that actually facilitated that. Unfortunately, many of them get frustrated by the poor drops at high lever and the lack of trade system, and quit (have seen countless topics on this very subject, as well as in-game gripe).

Relying on 3rd party nonsense is not a healthy approach for any game developer.

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@xtorma

If everything was easy then the game wouldn't have a lasting affect. The little bit of "work" you do have to do (if you want to make a bunch of selling) is use a 3rd party app to create a forum template for a shop. Even then if you have just a few larger items you want to sell no need to use the program.

See, this is a common misconception. The only things that need to not be easy are the drop rates, building your character, and monster/boss difficulty. Everything else should be basically painless.

"

Best example I can use is D3 RoS, I picked it up on a Monday and had a complete crusader set by the end of the week doing the hardest difficulty, to me that isn't fun. Yes the character can have legendary gems and I can grind those up, but my gear will be relatively the same, as well as play-style, everything is handed to you in that game and it becomes boring MUCH quicker.

That's for a large number of reasons--not just trade--but I'll list the biggest ones.

1. Game is too easy in the first place (monster difficulty)
2. Builds are too easy; you can do basically anything you want and can't fail
3. Drops are too easy; you can self-find upgrades every 20 minutes
4. The poor itemization design and on-the-fly respec means you never have a reason to roll another character of the same class
5. The lack of trading in the game removes incentive to farm anything

D3 was a wreck since it launched, but removing AH in favor of the loot system they have in place was the biggest mistake they could have made--and the ultimate reason I quit (that, and TL2 and POE exist).

Making trade into "work" in POE is unhealthy for the game. It drives players away, or makes them at least not want to bother with it, which is how I was for the first 700 hours I played. The only reason I do any at all is because I know there are some items that will never drop for me, but I could eventually trade for, and even that loses all relevance during long periods of "casual" play where I just dgaf about end-game. Which brings up the other issue: Trading is usually required to do endgame, but that's a different discussion.

I forgot to add that comparing it to the current state of D3 RoS is equivalent to a "slippery slope" fallacy. Asking for a good, convenient in-game trade system will not reduce POE to that level. They would have to do a lot more for that to ever happen.

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The item won't sell because the system is terrible. In every other game I've played that has an AH (even D3 when it still did), you could sell anything--didn't have to be the highest quality item.

Then let this be the ONE FUCKING GAME THAT DOESN'T HAVE AUTOMATIC TRADING. Do you think any of your same items would sell if you put it on some magical listing site? Its almost like we have a system to list your items and site that people use to search for item, only thing is you have to be online and do the trade, is that really too much to ask?

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New players try the game every day, and they find currency that they would happily spend on a few upgrades if there was a trade system in place that actually facilitated that. Unfortunately, many of them get frustrated by the poor drops at high lever and the lack of trade system, and quit (have seen countless topics on this very subject, as well as in-game gripe).

The default league is torment, we don't have any numbers to go on here, but if I had to guess the majority of new players start there. Which means those little things you think you could of sold to new players isn't going to happen. Standard is where people play their high level characters, tryout builds and test various things, again without the numbers I can PROVE to you that standard economy is both different and extreme on selling certain things.

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Relying on 3rd party nonsense is not a healthy approach for any game developer.

Its 3rd party website that simply indexes the searches in a more presentable way and a stand alone application that searches your stash and tags items with key buyouts. These programs have BOTH been proven to be reliable and BOTH use the official forums to work.

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See, this is a common misconception. The only things that need to not be easy are the drop rates, building your character, and monster/boss difficulty. Everything else should be basically painless.

No this is simply your opinion. Trading in PoE rewards players that put forth an equal amount of effort and and rewarded as such. Put forth 0 amount of effort and you get 0 trades. An AH like system doesn't reward players for anything at all.

Gear is already easy to acquire, it doesn't need to become this homogenized system where you never care what the hell drops for you.

"

That's for a large number of reasons--not just trade--but I'll list the biggest ones.

1. Game is too easy in the first place (monster difficulty)
2. Builds are too easy; you can do basically anything you want and can't fail
3. Drops are too easy; you can self-find upgrades every 20 minutes
4. The poor itemization design and on-the-fly respec means you never have a reason to roll another character of the same class
5. The lack of trading in the game removes incentive to farm anything

An AH like system COMPLETELY removes regular trading. No player interaction at all anymore from trades, i've posted at least 1 story and could post many more where I had a positive experience from player interaction. Your essentially asking GGG to remove one of the only social aspects of the game that solo players do. It simply cannot and will not ever happen in PoE, your literally beating the horse that has been dead for 2 years, STOP.

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Making trade into "work" in POE is unhealthy for the game. It drives players away, or makes them at least not want to bother with it, which is how I was for the first 700 hours I played. The only reason I do any at all is because I know there are some items that will never drop for me, but I could eventually trade for, and even that loses all relevance during long periods of "casual" play where I just dgaf about end-game. Which brings up the other issue: Trading is usually required to do endgame, but that's a different discussion.

It isn't work, you launch a program, set b\o on your items and post on the forums and be in game to trade. That isn't difficult at all, anyone who says it is either A) doesn't or hasn't ever done it or B) is just plain lazy

Trading is not required to do regular endgame, it might help if you want a gem or something you don't get for your character, but PLENTY of people do solo selfound (with various restrictions)

PoE is a game I enjoy because of these "quirks" that don't conform to what "every" other game does. I want this to remain a unique game that is both enjoyable and rewarding.

Unique does not mean better. What you want is to roll around in a horse-drawn carriage when we have the option to use electric trains.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Unique does not mean better. What you want is to roll around in a horse-drawn carriage when we have the option to use electric trains.

Because with the electric trains the system isn't rewarding to those players that seek to view the landscape, you might see more "grass" but the overall quality isn't amazing.

If I am horseback riding I can still get to the same destination, but I have time to rest and interact with people on the way. See beautiful landscapes (sunsets, ect) along the way.

You want to remove it because you wanna go faster, in all actuality if you would simply use the tools available to you its just like comparing 2 trains, one that just might make a few more stops on the way.

Also in this case unique is better because this game provides something you aren't going to get in any other ARPG.