Leave trading alone, don't waste resources on it

Bound items were intended to encourage people to run content. It had nothing to do with protecting the AH. But even using them for that purpose was an effort in backward logic, because there is no reason to itemize if you aren't going to run content. Furthermore, some of the BIS items were unbound, crafted (or world drop), and sold freely on the AH. It literally has no bearing on the viability of an AH in poe, except to say than an AH can work (as it does in many games) and isn't inherently a bad thing.

Take it a step further, and poe.trade has proven that having items listed for trade in a searchable manner with buyouts has not harmed the game. There is no reason to not implement it in the game.

If you are not attempting to straw man the argument, you have at least failed to comprehend it.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Bound items were intended to encourage people to run content.

Bound items make sure you can't skip or faceroll content before spending enough time in said content. It gives Blizzard enough time to produce new content, it's basically a gating mechanic like the 'you can only do the same raid once a week' timer. Make all items unbound and the whole dynamic changes.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

It had nothing to do with protecting the AH. But even using them for that purpose was an effort in backward logic, because there is no reason to itemize if you aren't going to run content.

I never claimed that, it's not about 'protecting the AH'.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Furthermore, some of the BIS items were unbound, crafted (or world drop), and sold freely on the AH.

Not really. I played from vanilla til WotLK and don't know of any tradeable items that were BiS. Usually not even close.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

It literally has no bearing on the viability of an AH in poe, except to say than an AH can work (as it does in many games) and isn't inherently a bad thing.

That was exactly my point, WoW having an AH doesn't have anything to do with PoE having an AH.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Take it a step further, and poe.trade has proven that having items listed for trade in a searchable manner with buyouts has not harmed the game. There is no reason to not implement it in the game.

There's a huge difference between buyouts and automated buyouts :) And yes, there is no reason to not implement not automated buyouts into the game, I've said this in this same thread.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

If you are not attempting to straw man the argument, you have at least failed to comprehend it.

Nope.

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Xavderion wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Furthermore, some of the BIS items were unbound, crafted (or world drop), and sold freely on the AH.

Not really. I played from vanilla til WotLK and don't know of any tradeable items that were BiS. Usually not even close.

You lost all credibility right here. I can forgive your ignorance for not knowing of them, but to act like there weren't any is an entirely different argument. Most BiS items were bop, but there were some that were tradeable (like these healer boots). Bound items aren't important to this discussion because their use had nothing to do with AH.

There is literally only one thing automated traded does that poe.trade does not: Provides convenient in-game trading. There's nothing wrong with that (despite Goetzjam's exaggerated and misinformed claims to the contrary).

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There's a huge difference between buyouts and automated buyouts :) And yes, there is no reason to not implement not automated buyouts into the game, I've said this in this same thread.

There is no difference, except for the hassle. Considering how many poe.trade exchanges happen in the form of:
Is this player online? No; skip them. Yes; whisper for trade
...I'm not sure how you can even come to that conclusion.

As stated, you failed to understand the argument and/or seek to straw man it, and further responses to these tactics are a waste of both our time.

"

You lost all credibility right here. I can forgive your ignorance for not knowing of them, but to act like there weren't any is an entirely different argument. Most BiS items were bop, but there were some that were tradeable (like these healer boots). Bound items aren't important to this discussion because their use had nothing to do with AH.

Bound items have to do with the economy and items available for players, if PoE had bound items then the economy would be different, just like if it had an AH it would be different.

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There is literally only one thing automated traded does that poe.trade does not: Provides convenient in-game trading. There's nothing wrong with that (despite Goetzjam's exaggerated and misinformed claims to the contrary).

Everything is wrong with your statement, you make a statement that seems positive, but don't dare to discuss the negatives of the situation simply to try make your point look better. Call me out all you want, you can't begin to know the difference between what we have no an an automated system because you are to ignorant to even USE the system we have now.

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There is no difference, except for the hassle. Considering how many poe.trade exchanges happen in the form of:
Is this player online? No; skip them. Yes; whisper for trade
...I'm not sure how you can even come to that conclusion.

Big different, those that spend 5 min to price items AND PLAY THE GAME can collect on the spoils of their looting, those that don't want to spend 5 min or be "hassled" by being online and available for trade don't get rewarded, you fail to understand this concept, which is truly astonishing.

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As stated, you failed to understand the argument and/or seek to straw man it, and further responses to these tactics are a waste of both our time.

Don't agree with you and your argument is always fail to see, straw man or logical fallacies you can't ever be bothered to present a legitimate argument rather then the following on repeat:

NO AH, it works in other games, therefore it should be in PoE, even though there isn't a single ARPG game with an AH currently in it (for good reason)

3rd party, you refuse to use 3rd party to list your items, thing is with a simple forum template you don't need to use procurement. Then again you can't possible know this because you don't use the system.

Unprofessional\cheap\ect, every single game ever (of this nature) has 3rd party tools that typically are better then what the game developers provide. You mention WoW so much, that is one of the biggest games filled with 3rd party apps (or at least it was for the longest time)

Player interaction, you value player interaction as a net 0 gain, which is truly sad considering the online multiplayer aspect of the game and the benefits of parties\friends to help you level or borrow gear from (among other things)


You fail to see how the current system is rewarding to the players that actually use it rather then everyone, this is an important aspect of the game and of any economy. If automation was added that means more low, mediocre and maybe a bit more high level gear on the market, it becomes flooded with items because the risk or investment into listing gear would cost nothing. Item values decrease because of such and the ability to gain wealth overall decreases as desperate players try to continuously undercut each other. The current system rewards players that spend a few min to properly price, list and market their items, as well as take a few seconds of their time to sell it when the time comes, even if 90 or more % of trades are PM, invite, ho ty4t, the 10% of the trades, PAIRED WITH THE OTHER CURRENT BENEFITS OF THE SYSTEM is worth keeping automation out of PoE.

I'd love for a developer to come and reply in this thread to reassure me that automation (unless very limited thru forums) will NEVER be in PoE. That would stop this argument and you can either choose to use the system, not use it or leave.

You fail to present an argument rather then the listed ones above and those are not good enough.

Again, you accuse me of the very things you are guilty of, and your entire post boils down to "no u." Not even worth the rebuttal, because my previous statements already do that just fine. I guess you're right. I don't need to repeat myself.

:D

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Again, you accuse me of the very things you are guilty of, and your entire post boils down to "no u." Not even worth the rebuttal, because my previous statements already do that just fine. I guess you're right. I don't need to repeat myself.

:D

Such as what not using the system?

Not complaining about 3rd party.

Please make more generic 2-3 sentence replies.

You simply don't understand and AH is not a trade system, it is a trade system REPLACEMENT.

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goetzjam wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Again, you accuse me of the very things you are guilty of, and your entire post boils down to "no u." Not even worth the rebuttal, because my previous statements already do that just fine. I guess you're right. I don't need to repeat myself.

:D

Such as what not using the system?

Not complaining about 3rd party.

Please make more generic 2-3 sentence replies.

You simply don't understand and AH is not a trade system, it is a trade system REPLACEMENT.

Cool hypocritical cherry pick, bro. Please, tell me more of the same things you've repeated for 20 pages too.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

You lost all credibility right here. I can forgive your ignorance for not knowing of them, but to act like there weren't any is an entirely different argument. Most BiS items were bop, but there were some that were tradeable (like these healer boots). Bound items aren't important to this discussion because their use had nothing to do with AH.

This gave me a good laugh. First, those boots aren't BiS. Second, boots are a quite unimportant slot (no set bonuses). My point stands, you fail as usual.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

There is literally only one thing automated traded does that poe.trade does not: Provides convenient in-game trading. There's nothing wrong with that (despite Goetzjam's exaggerated and misinformed claims to the contrary).

If it gets too convenient, it becomes a problem, see D3.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

There is no difference, except for the hassle. Considering how many poe.trade exchanges happen in the form of:
Is this player online? No; skip them. Yes; whisper for trade
...I'm not sure how you can even come to that conclusion.

Bolded the important part. Automated trading = super buffed trading. People are already crying about how trading is far superior to self found. It would be bad for the game. I understand this, Goetzjam understands this, Chris understands this :) Deal with it.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

As stated, you failed to understand the argument and/or seek to straw man it, and further responses to these tactics are a waste of both our time.

Now you're just parroting your nonsense statements.

TL;DR: ayy lmao

No equipment slot is unimportant, and your lack of era relevant knowledge says it all: You can't refute the point.

As for people crying about self found, this is an online-only game. It's not meant to be solo self found. They'll have to get over it.

However, speaking for Chris (or anyone else) puts your argument out of the realm of fact, and in the realm of presumption. Chris has his own reasons for what he thinks the game needs, and you don't get to interpret that for him. Lastly, I've already covered this, but Chris is not above criticism, nor is he incapable of changing his mind (same with the rest of the dev team).

Your argument doesn't hold water, and I'm actually bored of the poor reasoning the anti-AH crowd continually use here. PM me if you come up with something substantial. Until then, I'm done here.

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No equipment slot is unimportant, and your lack of era relevant knowledge says it all: You can't refute the point.

You are argueing with someone about a mechanic in another game, that is how desperate you are to try to discredit anyones position. Quite frankly it doesn't matter which is true, the fact of the matter is bound items play a large roll in the economy of games, as they remove the ability to sell\trade\ect those items. Saying it has no effect whatsoever at the economy level is completely wrong.

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As for people crying about self found, this is an online-only game. It's not meant to be solo self found. They'll have to get over it.

And if you want an AH in an ARPG game your going to have to get over it. What we have no is the perfect balance of availablility and automation.

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However, speaking for Chris (or anyone else) puts your argument out of the realm of fact, and in the realm of presumption. Chris has his own reasons for what he thinks the game needs, and you don't get to interpret that for him. Lastly, I've already covered this, but Chris is not above criticism, nor is he incapable of changing his mind (same with the rest of the dev team).

Chris can speak for himself and GGG, we can interpret what he has said in the past and use these statements to our advantage. GGG could change their mind on something like this, but they shouldn't again you fail to understand the concept of design and principles. Criticism is welcome, blantanly complaining is not, big difference one you don't seem to understand.

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Your argument doesn't hold water, and I'm actually bored of the poor reasoning the anti-AH crowd continually use here. PM me if you come up with something substantial. Until then, I'm done here.

The anti AH crowd has been around since the abomination that was D3's, it will forever be around because of it. An AH has no place in an ARPG game, as I told you an AH is a trade system replacement, not a trade system.