Mechanics thread

um while it is wonderful you're asking a properly thorough question, it's less complex than that.

a crit is 100% chance to freeze, you gotten that part. so you have 25% + the stand alone freeze chance. a crit won't bother rolling a check if it can cause a status effect, because a status effect happens anyways. that is, if i'm correct which i'm only somewhat certain, need confirmation from dev on next bit of text.

what needs to be asked to devs is, is that status effect chance before or after a crit occurs? if before, then problems happen like what the person is trying to figure out. if after then the coding needs to be written as such that the game skips status effect chances. coding similar to eva/dodge/damage rolls.

if crit.chance = false
then if status.chance = false
break [or skip as no status effect triggered]

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entomogant wrote:

Does the "get +X life on hit with" support gem also gives the +x life with teh aoe of molten shell and infernal blow? Or does "on hit" only means mouse-click -> hit and not when hit due to a secondary effect?

But the lightning strike would give +x life?

In this case "on hit" refers to hitting with an attack. So it works with anything that is an attack. The AoE explosions from infernal blow and molten shell are not attacks.

I'm not sure if lightning strike's projectiles count as attacks or not. Try it.

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wxyjac wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Technically yes, but if I'm understanding your question there's no mechanical difference.
If 10% of all hits (including crits) freeze from freeze chance, that means that 10% of non-crits will freeze from freeze chance (and that 10% of crits will freeze from freeze chance, but crits freeze already anyway).
So applying your 10% freeze chance to all hits and just to non-crits both result in all crits freezing and 10% of the rest freezing.

I think I wasn't clear enough, let me give an example:

Say, I have 25% to crit, and 10% chance to freeze.
Assuming they work Independently, the chance to have both happening, is 2.5%.
So the chance to have critical, without chance to freeze, is 25%-2.5% = 22.5%; while chance to freeze without critical is 10% - 2.5% = 7.5%. When you add up all three, you get 22.5% + 7.5% + 2.5% = 32.5%, that's the total chance of freezing, the other 67.5% are the chance enemy won't be frozen. (or you can do, 25% + [1 - 25%] * 10% = 32.5%)

That's what I mean by overlapping, is that how the current game mechanism work?

The short answer is yes.
What mark was saying is that there's no difference between applying the freeze chance to all hits, or only to non-crit hits.
Since only a percentage of your hits are non-crits, the number of non-crit freezes will be less than 10% of your total hits. Non-crits still have 10% chance to freeze, regardless of the order that you do it.

Your math looks correct.

Alright, many thanks.

Thanks a lot everyone!
I use ground slam with life on hit support. Works great, instead of hitting three foes you can hit much more. :-)

To continue on chance to freeze :

if i use Cold Snap (20% chance to freeze) and a passive in the tree which gives 5% chance to freeze. What are my chances of freeze ?
-25% (20+5)
-24% (1-80%*95%)

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Kissan wrote:

To continue on chance to freeze :

if i use Cold Snap (20% chance to freeze) and a passive in the tree which gives 5% chance to freeze. What are my chances of freeze ?
-25% (20+5)
-24% (1-80%*95%)

If your total freeze chance is 20%: Since all percentual chances are multiplicative in this game, it will be 21% (20/100*5=1) of the non-crit hits.

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Spectruma wrote:

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Kissan wrote:

To continue on chance to freeze :

if i use Cold Snap (20% chance to freeze) and a passive in the tree which gives 5% chance to freeze. What are my chances of freeze ?
-25% (20+5)
-24% (1-80%*95%)

If your total freeze chance is 20%: Since all percentual chances are multiplicative in this game, it will be 21% (20/100*5=1) of the non-crit hits.

If your assumption is true, it would mean that regular cold attacks like ice spear don't benefit from the passive node, as their freeze chance on non-crits is 0%.
It doesn't work like critical strike chance where the passive acts on a base stat, the chance to freeze is simply a flat 5% increase to freeze on any attack.

As for the question posed, I can't really tell if the passive is additive with similar stats, such as on cold snap, or the mechanics are implemented differently. I'd wager that the total chance is 25% though.

I would also guess that it is a 25% chance on non-crits in that situation. So, if your crit chance is 5% (crit chance is 4% for cold snap, but it will never be lower than 5% without resolute technique or certain uniques), you have a 5% chance to freeze due to a crit, first. This will also be a more powerful freeze because freeze duration is based on damage.

For the remaining 95% of the time, I think you will freeze 25% of the time (assuming all "chance to freeze" modifiers are additive), for a grand total of freezing 28.75% of the time.

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renatobaal wrote:

If your assumption is true, it would mean that regular cold attacks like ice spear don't benefit from the passive node, as their freeze chance on non-crits is 0%.
It doesn't work like critical strike chance where the passive acts on a base stat, the chance to freeze is simply a flat 5% increase to freeze on any attack.

As for the question posed, I can't really tell if the passive is additive with similar stats, such as on cold snap, or the mechanics are implemented differently. I'd wager that the total chance is 25% though.

Sorry i made a shortcut in my post. I will be more explicit.

The question is in fact about the way freeze is applied (and by extension all status ailments).

I rework my exemple.

Case 1 :
Cold Snap hit
-> check your amount of chance to freeze on gems+passsive (here 20+5 = 25%)
chance to freeze = 25%

Case 2 :
Cold Snap hit
-> check if cold Snap freeze with his 20%
-> if freeze from Cold Snap miss, check if your passive freeze with his 5%
chance to freeze = 20% + 5%*(1-20%) = 24%

Again i don't care about crits for a little simplification.