Feedback / MoM + duelist
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The mana leech rate is very restrictive, it's true. It's a pity there's no way for mere mortals (who can't afford an Atziri's Acuity) to instantly leech mana in the style of Vaal Pact.
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I still see no reasons for MoM being in duelist area. It should be in Templar area, cause it makes you tanky (str) and expends your mana (int).
When a passive has a wrong placement, you'll experience the difficulties stated by OP. IGN: MortalKombat Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Dec 27, 2014, 2:43:14 AM
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" While i agree with your premise, this experiment does show that there is a possibility to make the MoM functional within it's current placement. It would require a little bit of passive tree fine-tuning imo. -add a mana % leach node (why for the love of all that is unholly did only the shadow receive such a node?) in the duelist area, as a flavor change make the shadows one "global".(= i mean with this, allow it to effect spell damage and physical damage, this would fit the theme of the character imo) - put some more + intelligence in that side of the tree, i know this is weird since it's a duelist str/dex alliance side. However, this could be complemented by some nodes behind MoM, to facilitate it's usage. (the way i see it, a duelist could actively use his intelligence to counter-act his enemy, thus an intelligence based barrier is formed = MoM, this would still be in line with a "duelist theme" and just be a more specialized form of the arch-type) Summed up from current experience, this is what i would change to MoM's functionality - revelry gets 8% mana(instead of the 4% they have know, i am considering dropping this cluster actually in favor of 8% for more leach potential, however great revelry has served me early on) - MoM becomes a cluster that requires investment(similar to the specific wheels we currently have)
MoM cluster projection
First node - Mind over mater second node - Keen mind (20 flat mana/20 intelligence) third node - Duality (-20 str / +30 inteligence / +20% mana leach rate) fourth node - Focused wisdom (1% mana leach per 100 intelligence) fifth node (this could be another key-node imo) Vital points mastery (+50% skill cost / 10%reduced life / 15% more mana / 60% mana leach rate / 5% of damage is taken to mana/ 1% life regeneration) The way this could be balanced is by making this chain longer and splitting up the nodes thus increasing the cost to attain it, however from current experience i don't believe there would be a need for that, it's already a high cost vs efficiency build. So this full cluster would grant - 80% mana leach rate efficiency, more mana % with some flat and intelligence base, a % mana leach based of total intelligence and an increase of MoM to 35% and 1% life regeneration(= this is to directly effect the 10% life reduction, you would lose life but your regen would stay roughly the same) And it would cost you - base str (thus hp and some dps, very low value), 10% life investment and it would increase skill cost by 50% (not including aura's, since they are not considered active skills?) That's roughly what i can come up with atm, i think the benefits outweigh the downsides to a point where it could be considered "worthwhile" to invest in it, given it's current placement. Peace, -Boem- (any thoughts on solutions or alternate idea's are welcome btw) Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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" You know, a node, that allows mana to be used instead of life, favours int greatly. Int gives mana and allows to use ES gear, and ES can be converted to mana with EB keystone. Also, int area contains tons of mana and mana regen passives. On contrary, while STR and DEX parts of the tree contain some int and mana nodes, those arent really enough to make a good mana pool. And they arent even intended for that - they're intended to allow you to have enough int for some support gems, or to have decent mana pool to use your skills (that's why we see skill cost reduction nodes in STR area). You see, when you use your mana for both skills AND absorbing damage, then you better have a HUGE mana pool, otherwise taking decent damage depletes your whole manapool and makes you unable to act. You can use your life for skills (BM gem), but it takes a gem slot, and you still need a decent mana pool, aside from other stats (hp, damage, etc). You can try to make it work regardless, but a build that gets EB and MoM, will show way better results. I have a bit better suggestion: Blood Magic keystone doent not remove mana pool (but still makes all your skill cost life). It makes a synergy with MoM then, because when all your skills cost life, the only way to spend your mana is.... Yes, MoM! We also know, that Blood Magic is too weak, so any buff to it is welcomed. Though, i still prefer to see MoM somewhere in INT or INT-STR area. IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power |
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Nice post. GGG should check this out and take a few looks for Duelist class boost. Only 5% of players play this class and that s a shame.
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@mortalkombat3
I think blood magic depletes your mana pool to 0? (in its current state) There could be a sort of conversion for the duelist imo, something like MoM + keystones - grants 15% more inteligence and mana, reduces str by 15% Blood magic + keystones - mana turns to life, reduces dex by 20% Sort of a trade off for other stats on the duelist side, which would open up new builds in this part of the tree and make those most easily accessible by duelist. Peace, -Boem- (the blood magic node would have to be moved closer to duelist for this to happen, so people would have a choice MoM or blood magic, or none) Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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I rather like the idea of allowing Blood Magic to maintain its mana pool, but disallowing it to pay costs. It would give MoM two directions to travel for Keystone solutions--towards Int for EB, or Str for BMK.
AFAIK, it would change nothing else about BMK, except to allow it to be used with MoM. In this way, pairing MoM with EB would require greater speccing with greater risk and greater benefit, while pairing it with BMK would require only the travel tax, with no risk (running OOM) and minimal benefit (since BMK generally would not want to touch a mana node, else why take BMK?) Otherwise, MoM's placement makes perfect sense, IMO. It fits with the whole keystone paradigm of either being a flavor of tree-identity (e.g., CI or BMK), or being a game changer with elements disparate to its placement (e.g., EB). EB is a bit of a "softer" hit with its placement, though, because it is favored by either Dex/Int or Str/Int (but generally not Int alone). Similarly, MoM (with the BMK change) could favor Str/Dex or Dex/Int, but not generally Dex alone. Devolving Wilds
Land “T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.” |
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" The only problem i have with your note is that you say -> It would give MoM two directions to travel for Keystone solutions--towards Int for EB, or Str for BMK. Traveling to EB is out of the question for a build that utilizes the MoM-keystone in its current placement. For that mater, traveling anywhere near the intel parts of the tree is out of the question. The reason i say this is because a build that would spread it's passive tree so thin as to do this would be a caster builds, since they can draw direct power from the level of there gems and don't require a lot of passive tree investment for them to be effective. And duelist does not lend itself to a caster build, the only hypothetical situation where this would make sense would be a templar/witch/shadow traveling down to get the MoM passive for defensive measures. But then, obviously the tax is to great so people resort to CoD as it saves a humongous amount of points in travel cost. You stating MoM is fine in it's current placement because one can travel to the intel parts of the tree is far from the truth. If this where the case, people would also do the reverse and travel downwards from EB to MoM. with my personal experiment at a certain point i even considered dropping the key-stone and using a CoD myself. Simply because it would save me ONE passive point and there is no other "mana based" armor out there. So while i think the blood magic solution is both elegant and plausible, it should not become a mandatory combination of key-stones just to save both of them. If that happens we might as well merge them both into a single key-node with actual potential and meaning. I think having a regen based MoM defense for casters and a mana leached based MoM for the melee side of the tree would do wonders. Peace, -Boem- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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I suppose I should further qualify my statement by adding that MoM's relative placement is fine (i.e., in the Dex side of Str/Dex, or the Str/Dex side of straight Dex.. that general area); I am certain its exact placement could be fine-tuned (e.g., swapping it with Ondar's or Iron Reflexes, or in that general area).
This wasn't much issue the last time I played, but I can see a good bit has changed enroute to EB, both from MoM <- EV whel <- Scion -> up the middle -> EB, and from MoM <- Ranger/Shadow outer tree -> EB. I concede these paths may no longer be efficient (before there were life/mana clusters and some sweet, sweet regen). The only thing I am opposed to is moving MoM to another area of the tree. Its disparate placement is part of its identity (imo), and it's current location is vaguely appropriate, perhaps given some fine-tuning. To that end, given my lack up-to-date experience, I totally concede to your points; you offer some excellent feedback and solutions regarding the issues surrounding its exact placement and what tools are available nearby. It's current exact location does, however, lend to a relatively cost-free but proportionately less beneficial synergy with BMK, with the aforementioned change to BMK. That would diminish significantly if it were moved closer to Dex/Int... but, then again, changing BMK is a pipe dream, so w/e ^-^ Another place that I think might be able to be expanded upon for MoM is Revelry. (Aside: does its +2 MGoH double when striking simultaneously with Dual Wield?). Its placement (now) is right nearby to MoM, and I think replacing the MGoK (not very useful to MoM) with flat ~6 to 10 total flat mana regen (clarity-like) could lend itself to making those now-fewer % regen nodes more efficient for MoM. Duelist would then have Revelry as an MoM-ready option to blend leech and regen. Devolving Wilds
Land “T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.” |
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I don't think MoM is in a terrible position, in the sense that there are some epic mana regen nodes in that area (Mana Flows, Arcane Chemistry).
MoM's posititioning seems to beg using Scion, I just cooked up a Wandere/MoM skill build here (http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAACGe-vJM6guS9J5ARGDyKr_noSsiCxz8nbqoo-ipNtfJXyRUgqW4NfCzpo-8qOFYteA3qut0NytNEit7l6Ga0DFuvGbRUghSpP_yTJ0ZxsnAY276nCLEc3IMJYpV08W5pf8ZvnipThTLV-BGWwcWcpA5IiEIsv4cT44RjQx3Zgh6GrncHwJzy4UNUFLDB8xXXpzT2_EcG9HFMLZphlSBWY9vnEQ_Cc8fKLR9faqyYc3DJRMUoHU9Ms_fXn4i-7vZbNblQMJuhhEj25z9zWbwRUKcr2wJca85wbOdtGXjO8wnDbQmg0xtRbPnI) You could alternately use EB, and go hybrid, which would have a slightly different build, i.e. (http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAACGe-vJM6guS9J5ARGDyKr_noSsiCxz8nbqoo-ipNtfJXyRUgqW41kg18LOmj71YteA3Yveq63Q3K00SK3uXoZrQMW68ZtFSCFKk__JMnRnGycBjbvqcIsRzc74iDCWKVdPFuaX_G-TdvnipThTLV-BGWwcXXz_GznKQOSAceiEJJsUtXhxPjhGNDlS6CHsDjdwc2PfLh8NUUsNsLwfOdqklRTC2aYZUgYqxsjBEPwnPHyi0frJhzcMlExShMs_fXOlifiL7u9ltQMJuhVcb25z9zWbzbAoPbznBs53jO8wkJoNMbUWz5yGsXvOrAVGpD). As you can see, you spend 14 points to get MoM (that also gives 42% to all res, which is huge). You can then spend another 5 points to get Mana Flows + removal of movement armor penalty. Then on the left side for 6 points you have battle rouse (which will grant you an excellent 3% damage taken as mana). 1 extra point will also give you Vaal Pact This is 25 points all up. 26 if you want Vaal Pact The rest pretty much depends on what you want to build. Going north west out of Scion gives you Dynamo and Shaper, further increasing your mana regen. long story short, MoM placement isn't optimal, but if you start as Scion, its far from terrible. Also there is a good argument that making MoM being placed near the witch area might be too strong, basically there wouldn't be little reason not to get MoM as a witch Last edited by deteego#6606 on Dec 28, 2014, 8:55:06 PM
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