A Closer Look at the New Passive Tree!

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Emphasy wrote:

It also helps that they are now notables, because they didn't really fit the nature of a keystone, since there is no real tradeback, you just get them. Although from the Looks Whispers of Doom seems to be doing the same since it looks the same, but the other node he named Hexmaster is either recolored or might do something else.

Actually, quite a few keystones don't have draw backs: Ondar's Guile, Pain Attunement, Minion Instability, Iron Grip, and Phase Acrobatics (even though it's gated behind Acrobatics).

I don't know if it was just lazy design for these ones (why is Iron Grip a keystone anyways?), but I think it would be interesting if they had drawbacks like all the others. For example, Ondar's Guile could reduce your chance to evade against melee attacks, and Pain Attunement could reduce your damage on full life.

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xstylenx wrote:

Static blows moved pretty far away from the templar?!

Yeah, looks like it's more of a witch/shadow thing now.

Actually Minion Instability has a huge drawback - minions die when they reach low life.

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werezompire wrote:

Actually Minion Instability has a huge drawback - minions die when they reach low life.

I'd also argue that Pain Attunement has a huge drawback as well.

But either way it doesn't really matter. Keystones don't have to have significant drawbacks.

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Meridin wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

It also helps that they are now notables, because they didn't really fit the nature of a keystone, since there is no real tradeback, you just get them. Although from the Looks Whispers of Doom seems to be doing the same since it looks the same, but the other node he named Hexmaster is either recolored or might do something else.

Actually, quite a few keystones don't have draw backs: Ondar's Guile, Pain Attunement, Minion Instability, Iron Grip, and Phase Acrobatics (even though it's gated behind Acrobatics).

I don't know if it was just lazy design for these ones (why is Iron Grip a keystone anyways?), but I think it would be interesting if they had drawbacks like all the others. For example, Ondar's Guile could reduce your chance to evade against melee attacks, and Pain Attunement could reduce your damage on full life.

Ondar's Guile requires you to use an evade build (trade off). And the primary reaosn it's a "keystone" is to be visible. That change to ondar's would pretty much gut it for any real evasion build while not affecting it for the builds that are using it for ranged damage immunity.

PA's low life requirement was a downside once. And of course that change you propose would do nothing to reduce its power level or change its use case.

MI has a huge downside (35% less minion life)

Iron Grip has an oppurttunity cost. It's a keystone partly to make it visible easily as well.

PA has a massive oppurtunity cost, and is a keystone also for similar reasons to IG (visibility). If you think PA is "all upside" you clearly don't understand what an oppurtunity cost represents, and in this case the cost is 50% of nonEV defenses.

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Autocthon wrote:

Ondar's Guile requires you to use an evade build (trade off).

I disagree. That's like saying using Armor or going CI is a trade off. Makes zero sense. I would go further and state that Ondar's Guile is one of 3/4 keystones that Meredin listed that actually has zero drawbacks.

Zero drawbacks does not mean zero drawbacks for every single build in existence.

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Autocthon wrote:

MI has a huge downside (35% less minion life)

Agreed.

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Autocthon wrote:

Iron Grip has an oppurttunity cost. It's a keystone partly to make it visible easily as well.

I disagree. The term "opportunity cost" is absolutely meaningless here. Every choice has an opportunity cost. This opportunity cost doesn't make it a better or worse choice than anything else.

As usual I'd advise discussions to be based on good understanding (something that Meredin did not have on some occasions) along with clear logic. No amount of words can supplement for a lack of logic.

Now that I think about it, I would go further and say that PA doesn't have any drawback either. It's just a keystone that requires a large of amount of dedication (more than IR, OG and PA) to make it work.

To the OP, thanks for all the effort!

I'm saddened deeply to see Lord of the Dead passive cluster moved further away. Before the change, it took 3 levels to reach the cluster, now it takes 6. T_T

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I'm saddened deeply to see Lord of the Dead passive cluster moved further away. Before the change, it took 3 levels to reach the cluster, now it takes 6. T_T

I empathise.

Re: static blows moved. News shows Shock no longer stacks, it is a 1-time applied bonus of 50% more damage taken. This makes having a super high chance to shock way less necessary and thus static blows less necessary. So no worries!