Nemesis One Week Race

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SlixSC wrote:

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Older wrote:

Also, the idea of grading the races as occurs in r/l. Races with class limits such as novice, intermediate, expert, and open. This would definitely attract more players, and solve the problem of spreading the prizes.

Well ok, but then expert would have to get the most and best prizes and novice would have to get the worst and alot less of them. Otherwise there would be no point in being better really. You would be competing with better players for the same prizes worse players would be competing for in their own league. That seems totally unfair. I mean seriously why should someone who can only hit lvl 21 in 2 hours be able to win the same quality and quantity of prizes than someone who is much better and can hit 35 in 2 hours? That doesn't make any sense and people keep making exactly that argument.

And in any case, this race is an exception, in general races are rewarding for everyone (granted there are some problems still, but it's not totally pointless for bad players to compete), with different level tiers and so on (which is conceptually not much different from the system you are proposing here). This race is pretty much a mid-season fun-event and thus offers alot less prizes for the masses.

I'm thinking of classing regular season races. Novice players can get excited over winning a piece of shit. I can attest to that.

And as for the criticism of the current race prize structure, it was a mistake. It doesn't affect me personally, but I reserve the right to comment.

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Older wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

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Older wrote:

Also, the idea of grading the races as occurs in r/l. Races with class limits such as novice, intermediate, expert, and open. This would definitely attract more players, and solve the problem of spreading the prizes.

Well ok, but then expert would have to get the most and best prizes and novice would have to get the worst and alot less of them. Otherwise there would be no point in being better really. You would be competing with better players for the same prizes worse players would be competing for in their own league. That seems totally unfair. I mean seriously why should someone who can only hit lvl 21 in 2 hours be able to win the same quality and quantity of prizes than someone who is much better and can hit 35 in 2 hours? That doesn't make any sense and people keep making exactly that argument.

And in any case, this race is an exception, in general races are rewarding for everyone (granted there are some problems still, but it's not totally pointless for bad players to compete), with different level tiers and so on (which is conceptually not much different from the system you are proposing here). This race is pretty much a mid-season fun-event and thus offers alot less prizes for the masses.

I'm thinking of classing regular season races. Novice players can get excited over winning a piece of shit. I can attest to that.

They can do that already in almost every race.

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Random Prizes:
Each Reward Point you earn in this race counts as a ticket in a random draw for one of the following items:

Alternate Art Kaom's Sign Unique Item (10 available to be won)
Alternate Art Stormcloud Unique Item (15 available to be won)
Alternate Art Fairgrave's Tricorne Unique Item (20 available to be won)
Alternate Art Moonstone Ring Item (10 available to be won)
Alternate Art Gifts From Above Unique Item (5 available to be won)
Alternate Art Divination Distillate Unique Item (3 available to be won)
Alternate Art Le Heup of All Unique Item (1 available to be won)

Yes players who get more points have a higher chance of winning one of these items, but that's just the way it is, anything else wouldn't make sense.

They can do that already in almost every race.

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Random Prizes:
Each Reward Point you earn in this race counts as a ticket in a random draw for one of the following items:

Alternate Art Kaom's Sign Unique Item (10 available to be won)
Alternate Art Stormcloud Unique Item (15 available to be won)
Alternate Art Fairgrave's Tricorne Unique Item (20 available to be won)
Alternate Art Moonstone Ring Item (10 available to be won)
Alternate Art Gifts From Above Unique Item (5 available to be won)
Alternate Art Divination Distillate Unique Item (3 available to be won)
Alternate Art Le Heup of All Unique Item (1 available to be won)

Yes players who get more points have a higher chance of winning one of these items, but that's just the way it is, anything else wouldn't make sense.[/quote]

I think you missed the concept completely.

Classes sounds like a great idea for future stuff, though might be hard to do for this specific race. Perhaps as something that carries over between seasons.

Promotion could be on overall standing within your class (for example, every week the top 100 players per class get promoted, and likewise the lowest players get demoted) and also on doing very well in a single race (top 3 or something = automatic promotion). Numbers obviously open to debate.

The advantage would be more even competition (particularly for those not so good, but certainly for the best too) and new goals to aim for.

Perhaps some particularly hard races could be added for top class only for them to have more challenges as well.

And what exactly would be the point of that?

Where is the added value in that? We already have level tiers in racing, which are conceptually not very different from classes (which would also be based on skill and have a tier system).

I honestly don't see how you could possibly argue that there would be "more" competition if you are competing vs. less players. That doesn't make any sense.

It is already the case that good players win more and bad players win less, a tier system couldn't possibly be any different, wherein the top tier awards the most prizes, the lowest tier awards the least prizes, which is in essence no different to the reward system that is already in place.

And like I said, the current reward system isn't perfect, but the solution to the problem is not to replace the current reward system with a different reward system that might come with it's own inherent problems, but to improve the current reward system to make it better for everyone.

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SlixSC wrote:

And what exactly would be the point of that?

Where is the added value in that? We already have level tiers in racing, which are conceptually not very different from classes (which would also be based on skill and have a tier system).

I honestly don't see how you could possibly argue that there would be "more" competition if you are competing vs. less players. That doesn't make any sense.

It is already the case that good players win more and bad players win less, a tier system couldn't possibly be any different, wherein the top tier awards the most prizes, the lowest tier awards the least prizes, which is in essence no different to the reward system that is already in place.

And like I said, the current reward system isn't perfect, but the solution to the problem is not to replace the current reward system with a different reward system that might come with it's own inherent problems, but to improve the current reward system to make it better for everyone.

It works in real life, or have you been there lately?

Society has structured competition on graded levels with no complaint from the lower levels and been doing it for centuries. Prizes are appropriate to the level, and the incentive is to graduate to the higher level. Novice games might have a low enlistment in the beginning but would work to bring more players in that are presently not interested.

And are you a politician in r/l. Seems I've heard this line..."And like I said, the current reward system isn't perfect, but the solution to the problem is not to replace the current reward system with a different reward system that might come with it's own inherent problems, but to improve the current reward system to make it better for everyone."[/quote]


And this award system is definitely not in place at present.

In my experience with MMOs over the last 10 years it's been made plain that when a good MMO starts to dismantle the things that make the hardcore players happy in order to make the useless casual players happy- this is the silent death knell of the game. If GGG nerfs the race system for these scrubs begging for handouts for showing up: I'll bounce outta this game.
If you like to do nothing and never get better at a video game but have the devs reward you for logging on everytime- go back to wow.

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Older wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

And what exactly would be the point of that?

Where is the added value in that? We already have level tiers in racing, which are conceptually not very different from classes (which would also be based on skill and have a tier system).

I honestly don't see how you could possibly argue that there would be "more" competition if you are competing vs. less players. That doesn't make any sense.

It is already the case that good players win more and bad players win less, a tier system couldn't possibly be any different, wherein the top tier awards the most prizes, the lowest tier awards the least prizes, which is in essence no different to the reward system that is already in place.

And like I said, the current reward system isn't perfect, but the solution to the problem is not to replace the current reward system with a different reward system that might come with it's own inherent problems, but to improve the current reward system to make it better for everyone.

It works in real life, or have you been there lately?

Society has structured competition on graded levels with no complaint from the lower levels and been doing it for centuries. Prizes are appropriate to the level, and the incentive is to graduate to the higher level. Novice games might have a low enlistment in the beginning but would work to bring more players in that are presently not interested.

And are you a politician in r/l. Seems I've heard this line..."And like I said, the current reward system isn't perfect, but the solution to the problem is not to replace the current reward system with a different reward system that might come with it's own inherent problems, but to improve the current reward system to make it better for everyone."

And this award system is definitely not in place at present.[/quote]

Again this is qualitatively no different to the current reward system which rewards good players with more prizes and bad players with less prizes. The end result in both systems would be the same. Good players end up with more stuff, bad players with less.

I have to ask again, where is the added value in your system? What problem does your proposed system solve that the current system couldn't possibly solve? If it's just about the quantity of prizes, then no problem that quantity could easily be increased with the current reward system.

You say that society has structured competitions on graded levels. Sure, how is that any different from the level structure of the current system? Players who can hit lvl X fall into the first bracket (10 points), players who can only hit lvl Y fall into the second bracket (7 points), etc.. Just because you rename these brackets and call them tiers (novice, expert, etc..) and make them permanent doesn't really make any qualitative difference, because it would still be skilled-based and relative.

Your proposed system would only divide the playerbase, make race scheduling alot more complicated and give good players a chance to make smurf accounts and farm lower tier competition races and all that for what exactly? Again, where is the added value?

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jdweber1982 wrote:

Here is my suggestion. Do a 1 week at the end of every season. Use the rewards from the current season as incentive to participate in the 1 week. Something like this with the # rewarded tweaked

2 Demi's for top 20
1 Demi for next 20
1 Axium for anyone in top 100
1 Perandus for anyone in the top 250
1 Queen's Decree for anyone in the top 500
1 Le Heup for anyone in the top 750
1 Distillate for anyone in the top 1000
1 Gifts from Above for anyone in the top 1500

Pretty good idea, tho the numbers would have to be massively tweaked. 5x more Auxium rewards than an entire season rewarded? There's no way. :) Maybe 1 Auxium reward, not 100. Unless i'm misunderstanding your breakdown, finishing top 100 in this race would net you every reward that the top 23 season players got in an entire season of effort.

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sascha_m_b wrote:

* nemesis mobs charged with shrines - something we are yet to experience, but may turn out cool

Yeah, this alone will probably get me to play. Plus it's hard to resist at least the initial ~8 hour rush out of the gates, to see how you compare.

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sascha_m_b wrote:

As for the prizes, I think that laying out a prize structure for an event that runs for a week and has thousands of participants is not that easy. E.g. for me it's completely unclear why it should be top 20 or top 40 or top whatever-other number, but I believe that somebody like GGG can leverage ladder and race statistics available and make an educated and balanced decision.

TBH i think they should consider transitioning to a percentage-based system. Top 1% get X, Top 5% get Y, Top 10% get Z. It doesn't make sense to continue to reward a fixed Top 20 per class when you have wildly differing, unpredictable player counts.

Season 4 had ~12,690 players gain 1 or more season points.
Season 5 had ~65,468 players gain 1 or more season points.
Season 6 will have ??? players. 40,000?

This means class Top 20 points were 5x easier in season 4 than season 5!

Not to mention player counts vary wildly from race to race, yet always reward a fixed Top 20 per class. It's actually more efficient to participate in less popular races, and later in the season.

s5s001 10626 characters
s5s173 1216 characters

9x more characters in the first, yet Top 20 per class awarded regardless. 1% got class points in the first, 12% in the last. It's pretty silly. Percentage-based would eliminate all that.


Firsts and first clears are similar, with 5x more season players, why not reward these to the first of each class? This would also negate the unfairness of certain classes. E.g. Witch can basically never get any firsts.

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Is my perception right that you feel confident about the tier you end up in as the league ends (e.g. top 60, top 100, top 150 - whatever) and thus are sure that had GGG arranged for prizes to be given to that tier (e.g. - just from the top of my head - Kaon's Sign to top 150) you'd be definitely getting something?

I'm not confident in exactly what tier i would get, but i would have something to strive for. And if i reached a tier, then i could attempt to reach the next tier.

In fact, this makes me realize competing for 1st overall in this race is utterly pointless! 1st and 20th get exactly the same thing. The only extreme competition in this race will be 20th-22nd and 40th-45th.

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unite01 wrote:

is account sharing considered legit for this kind of race ?

I seem to recall account sharing is not allowed in PoE, but i could be misremembering.

Hey does anyone know if you can trade with players in this race?