GGG, you need to fix Alva npc flipping NOW!

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Skoupistras#6015 wrote:

This thread is extremely misleading. You aren't producing extra exalted orbs that flood the market. All you are doing is trading gold for currency(because trading a high number of currency items costs lots of gold), making this a good way to use your gold for some extra currency, and not gamble it a way which sucks.

When I've said extra exalts, it mean more than you started with so for you those are a gain (extra), just by using gold at Alva. I think I was pretty clear.

Now if you are going to make tons of exalts this way, fast, you are going to want to buy divines with them right? That also means that the div price will incread because the demand is higher from all the flippers gaining exalts and turning them into divs.

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Skoupistras#6015 wrote:

I managed to spend 180M gold doing this, down to 30M gold now and obviously I can't keep doing it because it takes a lot of added time to farm gold ( even if you pick up and regal all the waystones)

I can easily make 200-300k gold in a map just by playing normal... lets not pretend now that the gold is hard to make :)
Rolf you must have done an insane ammount of flipping to spend 180m :)) pro flipper.

Again.. you aren't "making" any exalts. The number of the exalts available on the market before and after the trade is the same. You have more , but the person u traded the currency has less. The reason the exalts get devalued is because trade is the only way to improve your character past a certain point ( due to lack of deterministic crafting for the average joe), which in turn means increased demand for divines( that enable the trade of gg items ) which in turn "devalues" exalted orbs which are not used for trading of the best items, so which lowers their demand even further.

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Skoupistras#6015 wrote:

Again.. you aren't "making" any exalts. The number of the exalts available on the market before and after the trade is the same. You have more , but the person u traded the currency has less. The reason the exalts get devalued is because trade is the only way to improve your character past a certain point ( due to lack of deterministic crafting for the average joe), which in turn means increased demand for divines( that enable the trade of gg items ) which in turn "devalues" exalted orbs which are not used for trading of the best items, so which lowers their demand even further.

You’re focusing on the total number of Exalts in the market rather than the rate at which players can accumulate them. Yes, the overall supply doesn’t change, but that’s not the issue, what matters is how fast and efficiently someone can stack Exalts using gold through Alva compared to other farming methods.

If you can turn 1 Exalt into 50 in minutes, that massively shifts market dynamics. The easier and faster it is to accumulate Exalts this way, the more players (and bots) will prioritize flipping over traditional farming. This creates an imbalance where Exalts become more readily available to flippers, increasing demand for Divines as they try to convert Exalts into more stable value. That demand spike on Divines pushes their price up, which in turn further devalues Exalts.

So while no "new" Exalts are created, this system allows for an unnatural redistribution of wealth at an extreme speed, distorting the economy in a way that benefits flippers and botters over regular players

Congratulations, you have discovered flipping as a way to farm in Path of Exile. It worked in Part 1, and it works in Part 2 as well. If you think that flipping only exists in Alva, you are wrong. You can also flip various items through the trade site.

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loopax55#5378 wrote:

If you can turn 1 Exalt into 50 in minutes, that massively shifts market dynamics. The easier and faster it is to accumulate Exalts this way, the more players (and bots) will prioritize flipping over traditional farming. This creates an imbalance where Exalts become more readily available to flippers, increasing demand for Divines as they try to convert Exalts into more stable value. That demand spike on Divines pushes their price up, which in turn further devalues Exalts.

You got this completely wrong...

If everyone prioritizes flipping this way instead of farming, you actually slow down inflation.
If everyone starts flipping, all it'll do is dry the market out of currency (bots will hoard them all) with no one injecting more into the economy.
The thing you don't even realize is that bots probably account for 80-99% of PoE's inflation (direct and indirect impact). The amount of currency being dropped by actual players pales in comparison to what RMT bots are doing.

The only strange thing about your clip is why the 1:603 buy order doesn't budge at all, but your 1:604 gets fulfilled within seconds, and the same happens with the existing 1:690 order and your own 1:689 one.



The only way currency can enter the market is if people are farming traditionally.
That's why inflation happens in every league: the league starts with literally zero currency available on the market, and as people play, they drop currency (print money).
The rate at which currency is being injected into the economy is much, much higher than the rate at which crafting is happening (because crafting absolutely sucks in PoE), so you have a huge difference between "currency dropped" and "currency being destroyed in crafting".
That huge difference is what makes inflation happen and that "currency being destroyed" thing is what people refer to as "currency sink".

The other thing that dictates "inflation" (not really inflation, it's just currency exchange rate) are currency drop ratios and their use: Exalts drop way more often than Divines, and they're less useful. So not only the Exalt supply is much higher than the Divine supply, but the Divine demand is also higher. That's why as PoE 2 progressed, the ex:div ratio got worse and worse.

Let's say Divines are 100x less likely to drop than Exalts. The natural exchange rate of these currencies would be 100 Exalts for 1 Divine.
Now add the fact that Exalts are semi-useless as crafting currency and Divines are not. Let's say Divines are 5x more useful than Exalts as crafting items.

So the actual natural exchange rate is 500 Exalts for 1 Divine.
The only thing keeping that number from being achieved quickly in a league is the fact that Divines are so much rarer that people sometimes refrain from using them at crafting and hoard them longer (or use them to trade for items), so the Divine supply/demand curve becomes artificially skewed by players' perception.

Accidental double post

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Rassomaxa69#5346 wrote:

Congratulations, you have discovered flipping as a way to farm in Path of Exile. It worked in Part 1, and it works in Part 2 as well. If you think that flipping only exists in Alva, you are wrong. You can also flip various items through the trade site.

If this is the kind of economy the game is going to have, I’d rather not play at all. A system where you can make 50x your investment in minutes with almost no effort completely breaks the balance. If the best way to progress is flipping through an NPC instead of actually playing the game, then what’s the point?

I’m not interested in playing a game where botting and abusing a broken trade loop are more rewarding than actual farming. This kind of issue ruins the economy and makes legitimate gameplay feel pointless.

You might say "well then don't play"

Which is fair enough, and that’s exactly what I’ll do. But pointing out a broken system isn’t just complaining, it’s highlighting a flaw that affects everyone, whether you choose to abuse it or not.

A healthy economy is crucial for a game like this, and when mechanics like this exist, they encourage botting, inflate Divine prices, and make actual farming feel worthless. If you’re fine with that, great, but plenty of players, myself included, would rather play a game that rewards skill and effort, not just exploiting bad design.

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If this is the kind of economy the game is going to have, I’d rather not play at all. A system where you can make 50x your investment in minutes with almost no effort completely breaks the balance. If the best way to progress is flipping through an NPC instead of actually playing the game, then what’s the point?

I’m not interested in playing a game where botting and abusing a broken trade loop are more rewarding than actual farming. This kind of issue ruins the economy and makes legitimate gameplay feel pointless.

In any game, one way or another, there is a flip. It is not the best way to farm, at least as you described it. Just like the so-called flip is present in real life. You can not play, it is your choice.

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A healthy economy is crucial for a game like this, and when mechanics like this exist, they encourage botting, inflate Divine prices, and make actual farming feel worthless. If you’re fine with that, great, but plenty of players, myself included, would rather play a game that rewards skill and effort, not just exploiting bad design.

Flip is part of the economy. There are people who farm like this, there are people who want to sell as quickly as possible, and that's how flip came about. Divine Orb inflation is not related to flip as such.

The problem here is how extreme and effortless this particular method is. Traditional flipping takes time, knowledge, and risk. But Alva’s system allows you to turn 1 Exalt into 50 in minutes with almost no effort, which is completely out of line with other farming methods.

When a system lets players (and bots) accumulate wealth this fast, it does impact the economy. More Exalts being flipped into Divines increases Divine demand, which naturally pushes their price up. Meanwhile, regular farming becomes less relevant because it simply can't compete with how quickly people can trade gold into Exalts.

At the end of the day, if the most efficient way to progress isn’t playing the game but instead exploiting a broken trade loop, that’s bad game design. If you’re fine with that, that’s your choice. But don’t pretend this doesn’t have long-term consequences for the economy and overall game balance.