Dear GGG, Stop Trying to Make a Game For Everyone; Stick to your Core POE1 Customers

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:


Elden Ring and the souls series has proven to western developers that you can make a hard game and a deep game and people will still flock to it so long as it is a fun game.

Exactly! And while PoE 1 veterans are trying to convince GGG that making the easiest game with absolutely primitive gameplay is the only viable option, GGG shouldn't transform PoE 2 to another second-monitor game and they won't.
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Huachuca#5593 wrote:
You know what companies like more than some profits with some customers? More profits with more customers. Investors to those companies even more so. I know their marketing is about making a game for gamers like them. But they made the game to profit and that company that bought in to them and invested so they could make another game, they did so to get even more in return. You don't do that by just catering solely to a niche hipster group always trying to chase off the crowd of newbies you seek more people buying in to the product.

Of course they are going to seek out ways to make the new game appeal to more than the original did.


except this model has failed miserably. why do you think indies are taking over the market share and we getting re-master after re-master of very old games. its over, slop is done, if you still crave it there is diablo 3+4 while its still up, but its sure looks like its bleeding out
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Kraythax#2592 wrote:
In an interview some time ago I heard Jonathan say that he realized that he doesnt have to hold players like an MMOG. Its ok to have them play a while and come back for the next league. However GGG is making an even bigger mistake. Namely they are trying to make a game to suit everyone.

Half the conversation in this forum is about "Casuals" as if they were some monolithic group of people. The whole premise being to "simplify" POE1. Its foolish and will lead to game failure. Through YEARS of iterations we have discovered what works in ARPGs via POE1. Yet we are throwing away all of that for a hypothetical player base while alienating the core customer that has brought you revenue. I a reminded of the meme "That is a bold strategy, lets see how that works out." It's a speculative and foolish strategy.

Crafting has been ripped out of POE2 despite years of iteration and perfecting and pruning in POE1. Why? Because some hypothetical player base finds it to be complicated. Ditto the map design, campaign design, and so on. What DIDN'T happen is a team say, "Ok lets figure out everything our core customers hate about POE1 and make it better in POE2." That would have been super smart. Instead you destroyed years of accumulated knowledge.

Elden Ring and the souls series has proven to western developers that you can make a hard game and a deep game and people will still flock to it so long as it is a fun game.

Now there will be a parade of private profile, never bought anything but a EA key player telling me I am wrong but from a business point of view I am not. You cant capture the "casuals" (whatever they are) and keep your core customer base.

Its time to get back to basics and look at what you have built. Take the customers that have spent the most money with you and listen to them. Listen to those that have played POE1 for years. Make a good game and stop trying to make something else. Ignore the bean counters and their revenue predictions. AAA titles today show that these people are NEVER correct. Right now you are in SERIOUS danger of Diablo 4'ing yourselves and you don't have billion dollar marketing budget to deal with that.


But wait, PoE2 is a different game... why cater to only the PoE1 audience . . . It's kind of contradictory if you think about it...because this is PoE2 and if that is the case then why not just stay on PoE1??
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But wait, PoE2 is a different game... why cater to only the PoE1 audience . . . It's kind of contradictory if you think about it...because this is PoE2 and if that is the case then why not just stay on PoE1??


ironically poe2 is more true to poe1 than 'veterans' think. those who started playing after 2017 never played poe1 in its original state and so they have very skewed view of what it actually meant to be
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Kraythax#2592 wrote:


No, I said "... why our core customers hate about poe1." The core customers dont include people like you who didn't play it. They include the player base that has been buying MTX from them for years. You are not a core customer. You bought an EA key and have no supporter packs or was given an EA key by someone else. You are not an asset to this business at this time.


Games that only cater to low impulse control whales such as yourself at the expense of the general playerbase die very quickly. Whales don't enjoy playing amongst themselves because then they are all equal and can't flex their shiny MTX wings on anybody. Been playing first game since Piety was still the final boss. I don't like buying skins in a game where the whole point is your characters appearance changing according to what gear you're wearing. I've been buying other stuff instead.

I find it baffling that someone whose been playing the amount you have fails to realize that power creep is inevitable the more Leagues for PoE 2 come out, so you will eventually get more and more deterministic crafting options because GGG wants to figure out new kind of mechanics and rewards to encourage people trying the new League.
Curious that a self-proclaimed "successful business owner" fails to realize this simple fact. Hopefully this lack of simple foresight does not reflect on your businesses as well.
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AintCare#6513 wrote:
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But wait, PoE2 is a different game... why cater to only the PoE1 audience . . . It's kind of contradictory if you think about it...because this is PoE2 and if that is the case then why not just stay on PoE1??


ironically poe2 is more true to poe1 than 'veterans' think. those who started playing after 2017 never played poe1 in its original state and so they have very skewed view of what it actually meant to be


Well since you aren't a supporter of POE1 with no purchases and a private profile, I am not sure you are the right person to answer this.

POE2 was branded, by its very name, as a successor to POE1 and therefore the POE1 crowd rationally expected a POE1 like game with improvements in the parts that were rough. What we got was a POE1 like game with lots of problems and bad decisions made. This is the crux of the problem. Instead of refining the systems that were problematic, they broke a lot of stuff and unlearned a lot of lessons that were hard learned in POE1. Hence the frustration.

If GGG intends to tell its decade long supporters to pound sand and that this game is not for them, then they should be transparent about that. But of course they know that will completely kill their customer base. They know the zero MTX private profile players will be gone the first time they do a league reset.

I personally think they miscalculated. I dont think they intended to tell POE1 players to pound sand. I think they intended us all to be raving happy about the game while capturing a new player as well. But they made some very poor decisions and the execution went wrong.
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Kraythax#2592 wrote:
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AintCare#6513 wrote:
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But wait, PoE2 is a different game... why cater to only the PoE1 audience . . . It's kind of contradictory if you think about it...because this is PoE2 and if that is the case then why not just stay on PoE1??


ironically poe2 is more true to poe1 than 'veterans' think. those who started playing after 2017 never played poe1 in its original state and so they have very skewed view of what it actually meant to be


Well since you aren't a supporter of POE1 with no purchases and a private profile, I am not sure you are the right person to answer this.



lol, and the answer is in the post you quoted. also you haven't been here for a decade, you are not the decade long supporter you making it yourself out to be, you fall into the group i refereed to earlier.
Last edited by AintCare#6513 on Jan 23, 2025, 7:33:38 PM
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MEITTI#3999 wrote:
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Kraythax#2592 wrote:


No, I said "... why our core customers hate about poe1." The core customers dont include people like you who didn't play it. They include the player base that has been buying MTX from them for years. You are not a core customer. You bought an EA key and have no supporter packs or was given an EA key by someone else. You are not an asset to this business at this time.


Games that only cater to low impulse control whales such as yourself at the expense of the general playerbase die very quickly. Whales don't enjoy playing amongst themselves because then they are all equal and can't flex their shiny MTX wings on anybody. Been playing first game since Piety was still the final boss. I don't like buying skins in a game where the whole point is your characters appearance changing according to what gear you're wearing. I've been buying other stuff instead.


Again you denigrate paying customers of GGG with "impulse control whales". Not only is that disrespectful and in violation of rules of the forum, it is inaccurate. A whale usually refers to someone that pays to win. That is impossible in POE1. Of course what you are doing is saying, "Any paying customer that actually gave GGG money is a bad person with bad impulse control" Not only is that a NASTY thing to say its just not factual.

I have, over the years, paid GGG some $4k to $5k through my 2 accounts and gifts to others. That's not an impulse control problem. That is me spending my entertainment money where I choose. I can easily afford it and when it comes to value of entertainment per dollar, its money well spent. What gives you the right to judge that?

At any rate your insults fall flat because we are the customers of the game. Those providing actual value to GGG and enabling them to continue bringing entertainment to us.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:
I find it baffling that someone whose been playing the amount you have fails to realize that power creep is inevitable the more Leagues for PoE 2 come out, so you will eventually get more and more deterministic crafting options because GGG wants to figure out new kind of mechanics and rewards to encourage people trying the new League.
Curious that a self-proclaimed "successful business owner" fails to realize this simple fact. Hopefully this lack of simple foresight does not reflect on your businesses as well.


This is not a new project, all of these systems have been tried and tested. Telling a POE1 player we need to wait 2 years for them to sell the harvest bench to us again is ... bad. That is assuming they even intend to do so. I dont know what is worse, the intention to not learn POE1 lessons or the intent to sell us back the things we already have. I think the second is worse so I will assume they just, erroneously, decided to not include it now.

This isnt a new game studio that doesnt know what is works and is trying something new. Delirium, Expedition, Breach and more are all POE1 mechanics. They didnt make things better, they took out, on purpose, things that people liked and I question that decision.

But frankly since you see people who spend money on this game as "whales with impulse control problems" GGG shouldn't listen to your feedback if they value their BUSINESS.
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AintCare#6513 wrote:
lol, and the answer is in the post you quoted. also you haven't been here for a decade, you are not the decade long supporter you making it yourself out to be, you fall into the group i refereed to earlier.


This account alone has been here a lot longer than yours. My profile and purchases are public information. Just on this account if you add it up is over 1k of MTX purchases, money WELL SPENT. I also had another account 5 or so years ago but the steam account got hacked and corrupted and a lot of bad stuff occurred in one of steam's many data breaches. Thats why I started a new account and I dont use steam to log in anymore. I also have a ps5 account and purchases of gifts for friends and family. GGG can easily look me up.

Perhaps you should reveal your extensive history so we know you are speaking from experience. Intuition tells me you wont.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Again you denigrate paying customers of GGG with "impulse control whales". Not only is that disrespectful and in violation of rules of the forum, it is inaccurate.


I'm sure you comparing other customers purchases to yours and dismissing their feedback as "worthless" on that basis is similarly disrespectful and in violation of rules of the forum. You're acting like that one guy in a busy night club entrance going "nah-nah-nah" at anyone standing in line instead of having your precious VIP pass.

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What gives you the right to judge that?


You judging others based on how they spend their money, that opened you to fair criticism. When you're being nasty to others, that gives them the license to be as nasty as they want to you. Very simple.

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This is not a new project, all of these systems have been tried and tested.


Didn't you just say that PoE 1 had problems of its own? How can it be "tried and tested simultaneously? Stop contradicting yourself.

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Telling a POE1 player we need to wait 2 years for them to sell the harvest bench to us again is


If you would've actually listened the patch interview, they're trying to balance the crafting so that not all drops in the endgame would feel terrible. That is always a balancing act on a tightrope and never easy, because players like you demand to get Mageblood in Twilight Strand and then simultaneously complain that all the belt drops in the game after the fact are terrible. Of course they are because you already got your wish and you got the best belt in the game.

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This isnt a new game studio that doesnt know what is works and is trying something new. Delirium, Expedition, Breach and more are all POE1 mechanics. They didnt make things better, they took out, on purpose, things that people liked and I question that decision.


They're clearly still unfinished. Delirium occasionally calls Distilled Emotions Oils which should tell you enough. You're willingly coming inside an amusement park that isn't finished yet and complain that the carousel doesn't have music yet and theres a huge sandpit where the rollercoaster should be. No amount of you screaming that you're a paying customer is going to make the amount of work shrink.

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But frankly since you see people who spend money on this game as "whales with impulse control problems" GGG shouldn't listen to your feedback if they value their BUSINESS.


But you haven't given any feedback yet. You've just been saying how the game is generally doing "wrong thing" without specifying anything else but the fact you don't get your broken Harvest crafting and other instant gratification win buttons that can help you skip the game instead of playing it.

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