Bow skills damage conversion

"

AintCare#6513 wrote:

you have options to achieve what you are after, those were explained to you itt. you just don't like it, prob because you are missing out on dmg by doing so. and thats on you

I personally am fine with both scenarios, being able to convert 100% or not being able to do so. So I am not advocating for either. I will play however the game does it.

It just important to keep in mind that the listed "solutions" (use supports that add additional damage or use spells) are not solutions to reach 100% conversion. At this stage of the game there are no conversion support gems like Physical to Lightning Support from PoE 1.

Furthermore, a build that can focus on one damage type will always do more damage than a build that uses mixed damage types. It is impossible to be the other way around. For the simple fact that there are things like curses that reduce resistance, exposure, break armor and so on.

PoE 1 players are used to convert 100% because of damage scaling. Exceptions are trinity builds. Missing out on damage because of partial conversion simply feels bad. Like you would make a rookie mistake because you are not familiar with how conversion works. PoE was always a numbers game.

The way conversion works in PoE 2, that skill conversion is independent from other conversions, the skill conversion is basically useless if you want to achieve 100% conversion. Since you still need to get 100% conversion from other sources.

As an example. If you have a skill that converts 60% physical to lightning you will be left with 40% physical. If you want to convert this with other sources and you would only add 40% physical to lightning, these 40% would be multiplicative with the skill conversion. So 60% skill conversion and 40% from other sources:
1 - (1 - 0.6) * (1 - 0,4) = 76% physical converted to lightning.

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

I did understand & adressed that in the first paragraph : if you want to increase the conversion on a skill that doesn't do 100% Conversion in the first place ? You use the corresponding Support Gem to increase conversion or just add extra damage of a specific type . Or if you absolutely don't want to have multiple damage type you play Spells instead .

There are no corresponding support gems that increase conversion at this state of the game.

Adding extra damage of a type does not effect conversion.


I understand that the general consensus is, just accept partial conversion. To me personally that is ok. But the way I understand the thread, the question was why was it designed that way. I may be misinterpreting the question, but that is how I understood it.

I think that some people don't know how conversion and scaling works in PoE 2. So I am trying to clear up some errors.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

There are no corresponding support gems that increase conversion at this state of the game.

Adding extra damage of a type does not effect conversion.

Wrong & Wrong .

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

Wrong & Wrong .

List the names of the support gems you are talking about.

And how does added damage increase the conversion from 60% to more than 60%?

Edit:
If you have 100 physical damage, 60% physical converted to lightning, 40 added lightning damage. You still only have 60% conversion, ergo 40 physical damage left. The % of each part of the resulting damage may differ, but the conversion stays the same.

i think skills should be 100% phys conversion.


if you want to also be doing cold damage on a fire conversion skill then get flat cold damage on your weapon/gear/extra as.


its a game where you specialise and the more you specialise the more interesting the sets of options become for investment. you got all 3 elements then its just really generic and boring. you do 1 element and then you can spec into that element, its increases, pen, its specific ailments and mechanics, it opens up a far more interesting world where you have all this specialisation but you also then have these other elements you havent explored with this build.


when ele weapons in poe1 are just all 3 elements and then you scale just generic elemental its just feels really lame. theres no focus or identity, its just a big whatever burger.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

Wrong & Wrong .

List the names of the support gems you are talking about.

And how does added damage increase the conversion from 60% to more than 60%?

Edit:
If you have 100 physical damage, 60% physical converted to lightning, 40 added lightning damage. You still only have 60% conversion, ergo 40 physical damage left. The % of each part of the resulting damage may differ, but the conversion stays the same.

You are arguing on semantics about the formula steps and that's just a dead end . Sure only certain Uniques or Passive Nodes can alter the exact Conversion step that Skills are initially using , but if a Support Gem increase the portion of a Damage Type while minimizing the portion of another Damage Type before % increase to X damage type is taking place : this is exactly what Conversion is supposed to be about .

So beyond semantics , everything that was said is indeed possible and you can definitely end up with a 60% Phys converted to Elem skill doing close to 100% Elem if you use the correct combination of Support Gem / Gear / Passive . Or you can go a different route if you choose to . That's all that matters .

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

You are arguing on semantics about the formula steps and that's just a dead end . Sure only certain Uniques or Passive Nodes can alter the exact Conversion step that Skills are initially using , but if a Support Gem increase the portion of a Damage Type while minimizing the portion of another Damage Type before % increase to X damage type is taking place : this is exactly what Conversion is supposed to be about .

So beyond semantics , everything that was said is indeed possible and you can definitely end up with a 60% Phys converted to Elem skill doing close to 100% Elem if you use the correct combination of Support Gem / Gear / Passive . Or you can go a different route if you choose to . That's all that matters .

This is just factually wrong.

Conversion is conversion and added damage is added damage. This thread is about conversion.

You claim there are support gems that convert damage when there is not. You are spreading false information. New players may read this false information, follow it and then wonder why their damage is bricked.

Don't do this.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

You are arguing on semantics about the formula steps and that's just a dead end . Sure only certain Uniques or Passive Nodes can alter the exact Conversion step that Skills are initially using , but if a Support Gem increase the portion of a Damage Type while minimizing the portion of another Damage Type before % increase to X damage type is taking place : this is exactly what Conversion is supposed to be about .

So beyond semantics , everything that was said is indeed possible and you can definitely end up with a 60% Phys converted to Elem skill doing close to 100% Elem if you use the correct combination of Support Gem / Gear / Passive . Or you can go a different route if you choose to . That's all that matters .

This is just factually wrong.

Conversion is conversion and added damage is added damage. This thread is about conversion.

You claim there are support gems that convert damage when there is not. You are spreading false information. New players may read this false information, follow it and then wonder why their damage is bricked.

Don't do this.

As i said : semantics . Given you just want to feel right about terminology while ignoring the big picture the discussion is as i already said a dead end .

one of the many reasons why howa builds are extremely powerful, they don't care as much about missing conversion

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

As i said : semantics . Given you just want to feel right about terminology while ignoring the big picture the discussion is as i already said a dead end .

No it is not semantics. Let me try to explain clearer.

Lets say you have a base damage of 500 physical. You convert 60% to lightning from the skill you use. You have combined increased lightning and elemental damage of 500%. You use Lightning Infusion for 25% added Lightning damage.

So before increases you have 200 physical damage, 300 lightning + another 125 lightning from the support.
So: 200 phys + 425 lightning * ( 1 + 5 ) = 2750 damage

If you had 100% conversion instead of the 25% add damage you would have 500 lightning damage * 6 = 3000 damage. So 250 damage more.

Because the conversion is not 100% you have a portion of the base damage that is not effected by the increased lightning/elemental damage.

If we add Exposure of 25% on a target with lets say 0% lightning resistance it would yield 3387.5 damage vs 3750. So 362,5 damage more.

With Conductivity the gap would be even greater. This is not semantics. We are talking about real damage.

Also keep in mind. If you had 100% you could still use the 25% added damage. So a better comparison would be without the 25% for partial conversion.
So: 200 phys + 300 lightning * ( 1 + 5 ) = 2000 damage. So 1000 damage, or 33% less.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

"

Ashyev#5110 wrote:

As i said : semantics . Given you just want to feel right about terminology while ignoring the big picture the discussion is as i already said a dead end .

No it is not semantics. Let me try to explain clearer.

Lets say you have a base damage of 500 physical. You convert 60% to lightning from the skill you use. You have combined increased lightning and elemental damage of 500%. You use Lightning Infusion for 25% added Lightning damage.

So before increases you have 200 physical damage, 300 lightning + another 125 lightning from the support.
So: 200 phys + 425 lightning * ( 1 + 5 ) = 2750 damage

If you had 100% conversion instead of the 25% add damage you would have 500 lightning damage * 6 = 3000 damage. So 250 damage more.

Because the conversion is not 100% you have a portion of the base damage that is not effected by the increased lightning/elemental damage.

If we add Exposure of 25% on a target with lets say 0% lightning resistance it would yield 3387.5 damage vs 3750. So 362,5 damage more.

With Conductivity the gap would be even greater. This is not semantics. We are talking about real damage.

Also keep in mind. If you had 100% you could still use the 25% added damage. So a better comparison would be without the 25% for partial conversion.
So: 200 phys + 300 lightning * ( 1 + 5 ) = 2000 damage. So 1000 damage, or 33% less.

It's definitely semantics about on paper stuff lmao

On paper Ice Strike does 80% Cold Damage but in practice :



8299 - 17148 Total Dmg = 100%
601 - 1241 Phys Dmg = 7.2 %
7698 - 15907 Cold Dmg = 92.8 %

It's already possible to get close to a mono-type of Damage Source as i said . Your point here is "we should get that right off the bat because i'm missing out on milking phys dmg into my +300% Elem build" which is the big picture and it's consequences you are ignoring : if GGG would set every skill at 100% Conversion for you to milk every flat Phys to snowball into the next steps which are X% Increased Elem Damage , X% Increased Cold Dmg , and so on ... that would make the final DPS of mono-elemental builds so high GGG would end up nerfing damage globally .

So congratulations : you are asking for GGG to buff mono-dmg build even further ( they are already strong enough ) , while nerfing the other build possibilities being around but that will end up getting everyone nerfed all together .
I reject both the premise & the conclusion of all that .