Bow skills damage conversion

There is no way conversion is done first at least off your base weapon damage and % damage from nodes in your tree. The difference would be too great. I go with mostly pure physical and get a TON of physical/attack etc nodes in the tree, and my converted ice shot etc isn't like 1/3rd of my physical damage.

Something has to be working on the physical % increases for my damage to be so high, or maybe it's just broken and not working right.

But it's easy to see the huge damage boost you get from physical % increases over by the warrior side of the tree. The physical % increases boost my ice shot etc (you can see it when you hover over and hit alt or shift I forget in the tree).

You get a ton of % physical on your bow as well, along with what is in the tree and that DOES seem to boost the elemental damage you do with ice shot/lightning shot etc.

So not sure if it's not working right or what, but yeah, everything I have seen shows that physical is boosted first, then converted and then the elemental is boosted after that.

Again, could be wrong but yeah, that is how it appears in the game. Then again I have mostly gone for very few elemental nodes so I wasn't able to compare that well with physical nodes. Perhaps it's JUST the physical % of damage that is increasing when I look at it in the tree.

Because I go with high physical bows, that is significant, so it does make it hard to tell.

Anyway I have found high physical bows to work VERY well, especially if you can hit all the nodes in the warrior section. Maybe you can make elemental work as well shrug, but I'm happy with my setup. I get all the elemental damage I want AND very high physical for stun/bleed/poison/armor break etc.

Best of all worlds.

Can play however you want, but to me, that is just the perfect setup.

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wolfy42#4073 wrote:

There is no way conversion is done first at least off your base weapon damage and % damage from nodes in your tree.

From the wiki https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Conversion:

"

Damage conversion is calculated after combining any sources of additional damage to base damage, but before any damage modifiers (e.g. increased or more damage).

Edit:
Or the post from Vipermagi#0984 in https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3610069

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Vipermagi#0984 wrote:

(in other words: Conversion happens before Damage modifiers, they are separate steps)

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wolfy42#4073 wrote:

There is no way conversion is done first at least off your base weapon damage and % damage from nodes in your tree.

the conversion does actually happen first now.



this is fairly universal too as far as i know, if you have eldritch battery for example that converts energy shield to mana, if you take % increased energy shield nodes they will do nothing for you, they wont increase the energy shield that is then being converted to mana.

if you take iron reflexes which converts evasion to armour and you have a ton fo evasion gear on any increased evasion nodes you take will not work. the conversion happens before increases are applied, you could only scale the resulting armour by scaling armour.



if this is all correct it does make sense, it stops conversions being strictly better because they have more ways to scale, and it allows them to balance how much scaling is on offer because you cant do things that suddenly allow you to use multiple sources.








im rly not sure about this whole partial conversion thing now with skills.

afaik the skill conversion is now seperate to other conversions too? so say a skill converts 80% of phys damage to lightning, you cant then go and get an item that converts 20% of phys to lightning for 100% conversion? is that correct?

if you do that what will happen is it will convert 20% of the remaining physical portion? so even if you have 80% convert on your skill, to convert the remaining 20% you will need to find 100% conversion from elsewhere?


again i can kind of understand why it would make sense to do it that way if its the case but im not sure i understand why skills do a % conversion any more? why not just convert the entire of the phys to the element? it just seems really unnecessary at this point to leave a portion physical.



i think u can get the full conversion with heralds etc right? ive not played an attack build yet so i havent had to really deal with all this.

I didn't understand something, I want to ask for clarification.
Bow's local prefix is ​​"#% increased Physical Damage".
Is it included in Conversion?

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

I didn't understand something, I want to ask for clarification.
Bow's local prefix is ​​"#% increased Physical Damage".
Is it included in Conversion?

Increased Physical Damage on the bow is local damage. This effects the damage of the bow directly and is done before anything else. You can see this by the damage number of the bow increasing if you roll this affix on a normal physical damage bow. So you do not actually need to calculate it yourself. It is already displayed on the bow.

Global increased physical damage, as like from the passive tree or other items is applied after conversion.

But Increased Elemental Damage on the bow would be global though.

I see what you are saying and understand the quote but I don't understand how it's working that way based on my damage in game.

Some of my damage is from +% attack damage and +%two handed damage...a large portion, but if I was missing all the +% physical damage from my tree and the +physical x-x damage (maybe that counts since it's base damage?) along with the +%physical damage on my bow itself, the difference would be too big. It's just not possible.

Could it be that it counts the bonuses for the weapon itself (at least the %physical on your bow) first.....to calculate the actual bow damage......THEN it converts that to elemental at a %, and finally boosts that elemental damage with your attack/two handed/projectile and elemental bonuses?

That would make more sense. It would just be the physical % increase on your tree you would not get included which might not be big enough to really notice (especially since you would be getting elemental damage % increases to compensate.

I straight up can't believe that the %physical and +x to x physical on my bow and equipment is not being calculated for ice shot/salvo etc. My damage would be WAY lower with those skills if that was the case, no matter what anyone says. They may SAY that is the case (not sure if they are), but that is NOT how it's working or my damage would take a significant hit.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

I didn't understand something, I want to ask for clarification.
Bow's local prefix is ​​"#% increased Physical Damage".
Is it included in Conversion?

Increased Physical Damage on the bow is local damage. This effects the damage of the bow directly and is done before anything else. You can see this by the damage number of the bow increasing if you roll this affix on a normal physical damage bow. So you do not actually need to calculate it yourself. It is already displayed on the bow.

Global increased physical damage, as like from the passive tree or other items is applied after conversion.

But Increased Elemental Damage on the bow would be global though.

I understand better now, thank you.

"

SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

I didn't understand something, I want to ask for clarification.
Bow's local prefix is ​​"#% increased Physical Damage".
Is it included in Conversion?

% physical damage on a bow will increase the base damage of the bow you see at the top. so yeah that is local to the item, it contributes to the bows 120-356 physical damage or whatever the number at the top of your bow is. that is then your base damage that is being fed into the skill and then converted.


so it 'works' with conversion if thats what you mean, its not a wasted stat. its essential to giving your bow its base physical damage that feed the skill and is then converted.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

im rly not sure about this whole partial conversion thing now with skills.

afaik the skill conversion is now seperate to other conversions too? so say a skill converts 80% of phys damage to lightning, you cant then go and get an item that converts 20% of phys to lightning for 100% conversion? is that correct?

if you do that what will happen is it will convert 20% of the remaining physical portion? so even if you have 80% convert on your skill, to convert the remaining 20% you will need to find 100% conversion from elsewhere?

According to Mark, you are correct: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3610069

Oh, yeah!!

That is what I thought, so it's just the %physical bonuses on the tree that doesn't count which is barely any of it.

So it still DOES make sense to go with a physical bow with %physical bonuses and +x-x physical damage on it and other equipment (which is basically what I was trying to say).

It lets you convert that physical damage to ANY element with the skills, which is still better in general then going with elemental damage only.

So yeah, that is what I thought was happening (Although I didn't know about the %physical on the tree not working on the elemental part anymore like in PoE 1).

I may even ditch the physical % nodes on the tree for more attack/two handed etc nodes because of that (except I think the physical nodes section also has 5% attack speed which is very rare in that portion of the tree...so I probably won't).

I do think I only had like 5 nodes used for physical damage only, most of all of the bonuses were either two handed or primarily attack (since you get a freakton of attack bonuses).

Anyway, that makes sense now, thanks guys.