Bow skills damage conversion

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wolfy42#4073 wrote:

I see what you are saying and understand the quote but I don't understand how it's working that way based on my damage in game.

Some of my damage is from +% attack damage and +%two handed damage...a large portion, but if I was missing all the +% physical damage from my tree and the +physical x-x damage (maybe that counts since it's base damage?) along with the +%physical damage on my bow itself, the difference would be too big. It's just not possible.

Could it be that it counts the bonuses for the weapon itself (at least the %physical on your bow) first.....to calculate the actual bow damage......THEN it converts that to elemental at a %, and finally boosts that elemental damage with your attack/two handed/projectile and elemental bonuses?

That would make more sense. It would just be the physical % increase on your tree you would not get included which might not be big enough to really notice (especially since you would be getting elemental damage % increases to compensate.

I straight up can't believe that the %physical and +x to x physical on my bow and equipment is not being calculated for ice shot/salvo etc. My damage would be WAY lower with those skills if that was the case, no matter what anyone says. They may SAY that is the case (not sure if they are), but that is NOT how it's working or my damage would take a significant hit.

the "+physical x-x damage" on gear is adding to your base physical damage and the % phys on your bow is amplifying the local physical damage of the bow itself, and you are right yes that is your base physical damage too which is being fed into the skill at the start.

so all that stuff works.

what wont work is globa % increased physical damage for example on the passive tree of if you have maybe an amulet or ring that said % increased physical damage.

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wolfy42#4073 wrote:

I see what you are saying and understand the quote but I don't understand how it's working that way based on my damage in game.

Some of my damage is from +% attack damage and +%two handed damage...a large portion, but if I was missing all the +% physical damage from my tree and the +physical x-x damage (maybe that counts since it's base damage?) along with the +%physical damage on my bow itself, the difference would be too big. It's just not possible.

I assume that most nodes still apply to the physical and the elemental part. I have checked and there are only 2 physical damage wheels on the warrior side + 2 small nodes + 1 small node + 1 noteable.

Increased Attack Damage works with every skill that has the attack tag. Increased two handed damage works with bows, since they are two handed.

+x-y damage is flat added damage, not increased, and is added before conversion.

The increased physical damage on the bow is local, the others were global, and is therefor calculated before conversion. It alters the damage displayed on the bow and is used as base damage.

Yeah, I got it now, it's working like I thought, sans the few physical damage nodes (I think I have 5 on my bow titan). I mainly grabbed them for the attack speed bonus tbh, because otherwise attack/two handed is just better since it affects elemental as well.

I did not know the %physical on my tree was not working (as well) with ice shot etc, and that is sad, but probably not bad enough to remove the nodes since I get attack speed out of them. Due to hulking form I already avoid the keystone nodes that reduce attack speed for large bonuses in two handed damage etc. I want all the attack speed I can get since it's rare over there.

And I still both use pure physical attacks (Basic) or poison attacks that gain from %physical. Stun build up is very important for a titan (crushing blow and 40% more damage to heavy stunned enemies), and the %physical helps with that.

Anyway glad this was all figured out cause I was like, no way that is working like that for a second there lol.

Early on I tried elemental bows and focusing on elemental damage on my bow (used ice runes etc), but I quickly found that going high base physical with physical % on my bow and as much +x to x physical I could get on my bow/gloves/rings etc.....just was SO much better (night and day). It was great for EVERY element, and also seriously great for stun etc.

If the bonuses on the bow didn't work like they do, and %physical etc didn't affect it, then that would not have been true at all, but it was, and I have never looked back lol. Physical focused bows all the way for me...even when I can swap and have 2 bows, I may focus on an element (ice) on one weapon slot (skill tree changes), but I still go with a primarily physical based bow.

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wolfy42#4073 wrote:

Due to hulking form I already avoid the keystone nodes that reduce attack speed for large bonuses in two handed damage etc. I want all the attack speed I can get since it's rare over there.

Interesting, because I pick all of them for the crossbow.

A single load ammunition has very little problems with attack speed, and clears the whole screen, thanks to those 40%+ bonuses.

(On the other hand, I picked all "reload speed" nodes)

And yes, 2h damage/Projectile damage/Crossbow damage/Attack damage/Area damage/Area attack damage.

Everything is one big sum. All additive.
It makes absolutely no difference what I am using.

Weapons are all the same:
%phys prefix
%phys + something else prefix.
+X to physical prefix.

With 3 physical runes vaal.

Same with staves, same with bows, same with everything.

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Skellymancer#5263 wrote:

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wolfy42#4073 wrote:

Due to hulking form I already avoid the keystone nodes that reduce attack speed for large bonuses in two handed damage etc. I want all the attack speed I can get since it's rare over there.

Interesting, because I pick all of them for the crossbow.

A single load ammunition has very little problems with attack speed, and clears the whole screen, thanks to those 40%+ bonuses.

(On the other hand, I picked all "reload speed" nodes)

And yes, 2h damage/Projectile damage/Crossbow damage/Attack damage/Area damage/Area attack damage.

Everything is one big sum. All additive.
It makes absolutely no difference what I am using.

Weapons are all the same:
%phys prefix
%phys + something else prefix.
+X to physical prefix.

With 3 physical runes vaal.

Same with staves, same with bows, same with everything.

Only time I use xbow is in alt weapon slot with emergency+plasma, otherwise I prefer the bow, even for my witch hunter.

Merc start though is FAR easier to get attack speed from than warrior, especially if your heading n/nw for eshield and all those yummy attack nodes etc.

My witch hunter in fact ALSO went over to the warrior area for all the nice attack nodes while using a bow.

Meanwhile the 40% damage boost but 5% reduced attack speed penalty seems pretty bad when you can only get 10% total attack speed bonus along the tree, and the normal two handed nodes gives 22% a pop (might be 27 I forget). I literally just take the small nodes and skip the attack speed penalty keystone and it's generally be best for me.

I do end up with like 1000% total attack/two handed etc damage bonus from the tree, so the 40% (there are 2 of them so 80% total) loss but 10% faster attack speed is totally worth it for me.

I end up with 1000% damage bonus from tree and 10% faster attack speed (which is an over all increase of damage by 10%), vs 1080% damage bonus with 10% slower attack speed. Shrug, it's just a preference but I like it better personally. I can only have 1 melee tempo gem and only so much attack speed from my eq, so 10% difference is pretty large.

I believe (can't see right now) that my merc actually gets something like 20% attack speed and DOES take those nodes because there are enough bonuses to attack speed to make it worth it.

My Titan though doesn't head south at all, so never gets any other attack speed nodes besides the ones along the path to the edge and along the edge up to the int nodes etc.

Doubt there are many other people running a Titan bow build though lol.

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

Ice shot converts 70% of physical damage to cold damage. Similar lightning skills also do not convert 100% of physical damage.

If I am doing an all elemental build and there are no bow items with only all elemental damage, why do I always have to convert to elemental damage at a loss?
(loss in profit, because I don't need any physical damage in my build)

Where is the logic here?

The logic is for one-trick-pony builds to use Support Gems that either increase the % Damage Conversion you are doing , or those that add Extra Specific Damage Type while nerfing other Damage Type . But then you need to be able to lower the defense of any target that would be heavily resistant to your one & only Damage Type .

You got builds out-there that doesn't want to fully convert their damage into a single Damage Type ... which means they are always able to erase targets highly resistant to a specific Damage Type by going into a different Damage Type .

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Ashyev#5110 wrote:

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

Ice shot converts 70% of physical damage to cold damage. Similar lightning skills also do not convert 100% of physical damage.

If I am doing an all elemental build and there are no bow items with only all elemental damage, why do I always have to convert to elemental damage at a loss?
(loss in profit, because I don't need any physical damage in my build)

Where is the logic here?

The logic is for one-trick-pony builds to use Support Gems that either increase the % Damage Conversion you are doing , or those that add Extra Specific Damage Type while nerfing other Damage Type . But then you need to be able to lower the defense of any target that would be heavily resistant to your one & only Damage Type .

You got builds out-there that doesn't want to fully convert their damage into a single Damage Type ... which means they are always able to erase targets highly resistant to a specific Damage Type by going into a different Damage Type .

What you don't understand is that; If I want to distribute the damage type, I can do this very easily. But if I want to collect and only use one damage type, that's where things get complicated.

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

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Ashyev#5110 wrote:

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

Ice shot converts 70% of physical damage to cold damage. Similar lightning skills also do not convert 100% of physical damage.

If I am doing an all elemental build and there are no bow items with only all elemental damage, why do I always have to convert to elemental damage at a loss?
(loss in profit, because I don't need any physical damage in my build)

Where is the logic here?

The logic is for one-trick-pony builds to use Support Gems that either increase the % Damage Conversion you are doing , or those that add Extra Specific Damage Type while nerfing other Damage Type . But then you need to be able to lower the defense of any target that would be heavily resistant to your one & only Damage Type .

You got builds out-there that doesn't want to fully convert their damage into a single Damage Type ... which means they are always able to erase targets highly resistant to a specific Damage Type by going into a different Damage Type .

What you don't understand is that; If I want to distribute the damage type, I can do this very easily. But if I want to collect and only use one damage type, that's where things get complicated.

I did understand & adressed that in the first paragraph : if you want to increase the conversion on a skill that doesn't do 100% Conversion in the first place ? You use the corresponding Support Gem to increase conversion or just add extra damage of a specific type . Or if you absolutely don't want to have multiple damage type you play Spells instead .

GGG is not going to design every single skill doing conversion as a 100% mono-element skill when there's people trying to play a build doing several damage type at once . Your build is just not the only build there is .

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Ashyev#5110 wrote:

I did understand & adressed that in the first paragraph : if you want to increase the conversion on a skill that doesn't do 100% Conversion in the first place ? You use the corresponding Support Gem to increase conversion or just add extra damage of a specific type . Or if you absolutely don't want to have multiple damage type you play Spells instead .

GGG is not going to design every single skill doing conversion as a 100% mono-element skill when there's people trying to play a build doing several damage type at once . Your build is just not the only build there is .

So is GGG on the side of players who want to give multiple damage types? What if the number of people who want to use single damage type is half of the community?
Yes, my build is a special build for me, but yours is also special for you. There is no choice between the two.

You cannot claim that I have made a special request for myself.
Because in that case, what you say would also be a special request for you.

Both directions of development should have been supported equally.

Anyway, it is not worth prolonging. Let's just say that this is the current situation and move on.

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SoulOfReapeR#4323 wrote:

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Ashyev#5110 wrote:

I did understand & adressed that in the first paragraph : if you want to increase the conversion on a skill that doesn't do 100% Conversion in the first place ? You use the corresponding Support Gem to increase conversion or just add extra damage of a specific type . Or if you absolutely don't want to have multiple damage type you play Spells instead .

GGG is not going to design every single skill doing conversion as a 100% mono-element skill when there's people trying to play a build doing several damage type at once . Your build is just not the only build there is .

So is GGG on the side of players who want to give multiple damage types? What if the number of people who want to use single damage type is half of the community?
Yes, my build is a special build for me, but yours is also special for you. There is no choice between the two.

You cannot claim that I have made a special request for myself.
Because in that case, what you say would also be a special request for you.

Both directions of development should have been supported equally.

Anyway, it is not worth prolonging. Let's just say that this is the current situation and move on.

There is no side being picked here as both options can work out perfectly fine in the end , for the third & last time if you want to do close to full conversion of your physical damage onto a specific elemental damage it is possible to do so just like it is also possible to lower that initial conversion .
If you want to play full mono-elemental from the get go play Sorceress .
Stop acting obtuse .