I understand The Vision™ and that vision is flawed when it comes to increasing additional business revenue.
Yep. That vision is the reason we have things like archnem still in the game, and randomly overtuned map mods. There's nothing challenging about any of that, its just random annoying oneshots. If they actually listened to the community archnemesis league never would have made it into the base game, and as soon as it was put into the game it broke so many things, bricked so many league mechanics that had rare monsters and made them harder for no reason. I will never understand why they wanted so badly to put this bad league into the game but oh well
None for 15k. POE also has 16 modes right now, none of which are the casual mode.
Porsche has six models with multiple pricing options for each.
And poe has 16 different game modes available right now, the easiest of which is probably sc trade. Are you actually in here arguing that Porsche is a good example of a company trying to reach as wide an audience as possible?
Yep. That vision is the reason we have things like archnem still in the game, and randomly overtuned map mods. There's nothing challenging about any of that, its just random annoying oneshots. If they actually listened to the community archnemesis league never would have made it into the base game, and as soon as it was put into the game it broke so many things, bricked so many league mechanics that had rare monsters and made them harder for no reason. I will never understand why they wanted so badly to put this bad league into the game but oh well
Its challenging.
If you dont want to make proper defenses, you have to make up for that with mechanical skill, which it seems, based on everything you say, you lack.
So my suggestion would to make a proper character.
Or you can try to gain mechanical skill and understand where and how to move. Deep delvers in the past knew this and they did content way harder than anything that has been released yet.
I understand The Vision™ and that vision is flawed when it comes to increasing additional business revenue.
Yep. That vision is the reason we have things like archnem still in the game, and randomly overtuned map mods. There's nothing challenging about any of that, its just random annoying oneshots. If they actually listened to the community archnemesis league never would have made it into the base game, and as soon as it was put into the game it broke so many things, bricked so many league mechanics that had rare monsters and made them harder for no reason. I will never understand why they wanted so badly to put this bad league into the game but oh well
I remember the launch, true one-shot madness.
I believe they've been steering PoE 1 towards Ruthless for many leagues now and probably won't stop. I think that they've allowed The Vision™ to steer the ship and nobody will alter that course.
I predict that PoE 2 will launch somewhere between Hardcore and Ruthless difficulty and will be a slow slog. Shortly after, a large number of players will realize why PoE 1 was heading in the direction it had been and stop playing PoE 2.
I see zero chance that PoE 2 will be nothing more than a slow slog resembling the current Ruthless mode.
And poe has 16 different game modes available right now, the easiest of which is probably sc trade. Are you actually in here arguing that Porsche is a good example of a company trying to reach as wide an audience as possible?
Porsche caters to luxury clients but they have a wide range of model options, including pricing options. Adding a Casual Mode to PoE would increase player count and revenue, not the opposite. When Porsche owners buy a certain model, they don't cancel the order because someone ordered a different model with different pricing options.
If people like yourself would be so hurt and offended by such a release, you might strongly consider why that is.
The nerfs will continue until morale improves.
Last edited by Rippster#4037 on Oct 5, 2024, 1:19:22 PM
Because not implementing a mode that would bring in more players and revenue is business savvy? Please explain.
Its just as equally to chase off people, if not more so.
Poe has built its audience around a more hardcore and challenging crowd. This is from the creator Chris himself, and the developers that share this vision at the company. For as long as the game has existed.
If the company deviates from this, and is then known to cater to players who couldn't make proper builds, but rather complaining and getting their way. Many would leave.
I would leave as a player. Im not giving them money or supporting their game if they change their buisness model to try to be an "everyones game".
Especially if they buckle to "feedback" who cant admit any fault of their own. With all of them using extreme hyperbole, false broad claims, and outrage. Rather than any data or specific examples.
As listed here:
Spoiler
"
perfect mirror-costing builds that abuse every defensive layer in this game.
"
t17s were made to be farmed by those specific 3 builds and nothing else. Very cool game design.
"
Hurr durr just build defences just copy paste everyone's hc ssf meta build and do the boring checklist while having 500k dps and being tanky" isn't a solution to this problem.
"
Yes such good game design, only the top 0.000000001% who have 10 mirror builds can farm t17s for good rewards by abusing rogue exiles, meanwhile everyone else suffers. Very cool.
"
Then people are forced to play unfun expensive builds if they don't wanna "miss out"
"
If the entry level to do t17 maps comfortably is 5 mirrors(or more I dunno), then something is clearly wrong here.
"
This is exactly the problem with these maps, if you need these kinds of perfect-gear builds to run them smoothly then that's just bad balancing.
"
game unplayable
"
-New spectres are bad
All of this "feedback" unfortunately has no substance, or grand claims but no data, but actually data to the contrary.
"everyones game" is how you kill your game. As mentioned above by stnikolauswagne, and we have real life examples, of which I mentioned earlier, to understand this.
This doesnt just apply to video games as well. You are wrong about business and income. Companies who specialize, have a competitive advantage. If they try to satisfy everyone, they lose that advantage. As well as a loyal customer base.
Catering to a broad crowd is riskier and challenging, rather than focusing on a specific audience.
See, there is someone who gets it. You can't make a game for everyone or deviate too much from your core design / audience - this has been proven by other games time and time again.
There's a reason FromSoftware doesn't include a difficulty slider, auto dodge or aim assist in their games. If they did, it's target audience would fuck off - rightfully so. PoE is similar, it was never meant to be a fully brain-afk, no risk, low engagement loot pinata simulator like it's then competition. Chris and GGG knows what they're doing - keeping the core idea and design philosophy intact while still providing a good experience for all sorts of players, casuals included. Let's not forget we literally got a currency exchange this league, making it easier than ever to acquire currency and items - casuals included.
FFXIV would be a good example of a game that tries to please everyone. Over the last 10 years they gradually made it easier to do literally everything, removing obstacles and friction around every corner. The result? The game grew, sure, but now reached a point where it's slowly falling apart. Eventually they catered to the most casual players for so long that there's literally nothing left to do in terms of making the game any easier or more shallow. Leveling is trivial, class balance is in the worst state since the game relaunched in 2013 and entire archetypes (healers, physical range DPS) are in such a bad spot that you're outright better off not playing them - despite the game being designed with a holy trinity in mind. Their recent expansion was a tipping point and people are finally waking up, though it will take years to fix what got broken in the neverending chase of accessibility and "making the game for everyone".
Thankfully, I trust GGG knows better. And after playing the beta for PoE 2, I can already tell that the upcoming game will be a rough awakening for some in here.
And after playing the beta for PoE 2, I can already tell that the upcoming game will be a rough awakening for some in here.
The steam numbers will speak for themselves won't they, people will try it for a month max then many will quit most likely. They're here to play a fun arpg, not dark souls 4. You have no idea how large a part of the sc trade playerbase is going to absolutely hate so many aspects of the design. Which is why some people won't even bother trying it/will quit after the initial hype phase dies down.
Last edited by Toforto#2372 on Oct 5, 2024, 2:15:18 PM
Because not implementing a mode that would bring in more players and revenue is business savvy? Please explain.
Its just as equally to chase off people, if not more so.
Poe has built its audience around a more hardcore and challenging crowd. This is from the creator Chris himself, and the developers that share this vision at the company. For as long as the game has existed.
If the company deviates from this, and is then known to cater to players who couldn't make proper builds, but rather complaining and getting their way. Many would leave.
I would leave as a player. Im not giving them money or supporting their game if they change their buisness model to try to be an "everyones game".
Especially if they buckle to "feedback" who cant admit any fault of their own. With all of them using extreme hyperbole, false broad claims, and outrage. Rather than any data or specific examples.
As listed here:
Spoiler
"
perfect mirror-costing builds that abuse every defensive layer in this game.
"
t17s were made to be farmed by those specific 3 builds and nothing else. Very cool game design.
"
Hurr durr just build defences just copy paste everyone's hc ssf meta build and do the boring checklist while having 500k dps and being tanky" isn't a solution to this problem.
"
Yes such good game design, only the top 0.000000001% who have 10 mirror builds can farm t17s for good rewards by abusing rogue exiles, meanwhile everyone else suffers. Very cool.
"
Then people are forced to play unfun expensive builds if they don't wanna "miss out"
"
If the entry level to do t17 maps comfortably is 5 mirrors(or more I dunno), then something is clearly wrong here.
"
This is exactly the problem with these maps, if you need these kinds of perfect-gear builds to run them smoothly then that's just bad balancing.
"
game unplayable
"
-New spectres are bad
All of this "feedback" unfortunately has no substance, or grand claims but no data, but actually data to the contrary.
"everyones game" is how you kill your game. As mentioned above by stnikolauswagne, and we have real life examples, of which I mentioned earlier, to understand this.
This doesnt just apply to video games as well. You are wrong about business and income. Companies who specialize, have a competitive advantage. If they try to satisfy everyone, they lose that advantage. As well as a loyal customer base.
Catering to a broad crowd is riskier and challenging, rather than focusing on a specific audience.
See, there is someone who gets it. You can't make a game for everyone or deviate too much from your core design / audience - this has been proven by other games time and time again.
There's a reason FromSoftware doesn't include a difficulty slider, auto dodge or aim assist in their games. If they did, it's target audience would fuck off - rightfully so. PoE is similar, it was never meant to be a fully brain-afk, no risk, low engagement loot pinata simulator like it's then competition. Chris and GGG knows what they're doing - keeping the core idea and design philosophy intact while still providing a good experience for all sorts of players, casuals included. Let's not forget we literally got a currency exchange this league, making it easier than ever to acquire currency and items - casuals included.
FFXIV would be a good example of a game that tries to please everyone. Over the last 10 years they gradually made it easier to do literally everything, removing obstacles and friction around every corner. The result? The game grew, sure, but now reached a point where it's slowly falling apart. Eventually they catered to the most casual players for so long that there's literally nothing left to do in terms of making the game any easier or more shallow. Leveling is trivial, class balance is in the worst state since the game relaunched in 2013 and entire archetypes (healers, physical range DPS) are in such a bad spot that you're outright better off not playing them - despite the game being designed with a holy trinity in mind. Their recent expansion was a tipping point and people are finally waking up, though it will take years to fix what got broken in the neverending chase of accessibility and "making the game for everyone".
Thankfully, I trust GGG knows better. And after playing the beta for PoE 2, I can already tell that the upcoming game will be a rough awakening for some in here.
Buckle up.
As someone who actually beat the new content in ff14 right away without guides i know what you're talking about in great detail and as a summoner of the older times who had invested heavily in equipment and materia i had done things that not a lot of people got a chance to do and now never can like off-tank in the hardest content in the game as a summoner because my materia made my Titan just tanky enough to regen the hits while maintaining my dps rotations. but easy mode isn't going to result in the whole game being dumbed down, if anything i might expect Standard-Challenge+ to potentially become harder over time if a large enough portion of the player base shifted to easy-mode as GGG would have a baseline in easy-mode to keep people happy and from there the difficulty need only go up since there would be little reason not to test those waters.
In FF14 the solution wasn't to make the whole game easier it was to give those people who didn't want to do the ultra challenging content something engaging and rewarding to do instead they did make the entire game easier to such a severe degree they literally remade my class because it was "too complex" for players to manage a single pet with 2-3 skills tops.
Easy-Mode would take the more casual players to their own separate game mode and probably result in avoiding the mistakes 14 made.
To go further into this 14 also did a number of things to cater to users who are now adults and only have so many hours a day to play the game introducing daily type systems and overall drove the game to the state it is in now where i don't really want to play it, I don't care if there's an easier mode for other people but i do care if you change the entire game for it.
Easy-Mode is the lesser evil as far as i see it.
Innocence forgives you
Last edited by SilentSymphony#3358 on Oct 5, 2024, 4:20:41 PM
I think the issue is, it WILL change the entire game. SC Trade will see its trade volume drastically cut if as many people as you folks seem to think will move over. If you thought trade was a pain now, wait till there is a small fraction of the player base still playing in that league. A vibrant economy needs all tiers of players participating to make it work. The lower players essentially farming and selling supplies to the higher ones making the goods for the market.
Just as the casuals will quickly bore themselves in their own mode with no good items crafted (can't believe I need to spell this out but again, NOT mirror items or the like but average everyday "good" items that people seem to take for granted to exist), those who stay with SC trade will frustrate themselves with no readily purchasable crafting materials. Both ends will implode.
I've seen this all too often in the real world in corporate. Leaders who think they have a great idea but don't see the whole picture before jumping in. There is no such thing in this world as changing one variable in a vacuum. There are always unintended repercussions and it is foolish to think otherwise. That doesn't mean change is bad or we should never strive for change. But wishful thinking that "everything will be fine if only x changes" is dangerous for a business.
Last edited by TemjinGold#1898 on Oct 5, 2024, 4:31:02 PM
