No hardcore events? What?

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Icholas wrote:

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shadowthedead wrote:

There's a lot of HC haters out there lol i'm wondering why

Right? Weirdly strong opinions about it for folks who mostly don't play it.

My uneducated (not a psychologist) guess is its a (lack of) self esteem thing. Basically they believe themselves (subconsciously) inferior due to playing the easiest mode. And that causes the aggressive/hostile/evasive behavior.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Icholas wrote:

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shadowthedead wrote:

There's a lot of HC haters out there lol i'm wondering why

Right? Weirdly strong opinions about it for folks who mostly don't play it.

My uneducated (not a psychologist) guess is its a (lack of) self esteem thing. Basically they believe themselves (subconsciously) inferior due to playing the easiest mode. And that causes the aggressive/hostile/evasive behavior.

No, it's that people who play niche game modes need a reality check of how popular their niche really is.

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jdp29 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Icholas wrote:

Right? Weirdly strong opinions about it for folks who mostly don't play it.

My uneducated (not a psychologist) guess is its a (lack of) self esteem thing. Basically they believe themselves (subconsciously) inferior due to playing the easiest mode. And that causes the aggressive/hostile/evasive behavior.

No, it's that people who play niche game modes need a reality check of how popular their niche really is.

Got some supporting evidence? You made/implied quite a few claims which need to be true for your statement to make sense. As it is with you providing neither evidence nor reasoning I rather believe the real reason of you posting is otherwise.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Got some supporting evidence? You made/implied quite a few claims which need to be true for your statement to make sense. As it is with you providing neither evidence nor reasoning I rather believe the real reason of you posting is otherwise.

Evidence? Sure!

- 96k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Softcore
- 14k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Hardcore

- 19k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor SSF Softcore
- 9k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor SSF Hardcore

- 5k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Ruthless Softcore
- 1k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Ruthless Hardcore

These numbers are essentially the same for Crucible, and most leagues in general. This does not count hidden profiles, or people who have not hit 90+, or people who have played hardcore and died before 90.

However it has always been the case that hardcore is a minority, just like standard is a minority.

- At GDC Chris Wilson stated that around 15% of players play in standard.



- Pre Perandus League, the hardcore vs softcore split was 50/50. During Nemesis League the Split was 70-75% Softcore, 25-30% Hardcore. The hardcore player base is so small, that you would almost think that it is dead. Likely around 10%, smaller than those who play standard, and insignificant compared to those who play softcore today. Just on trades alone you can see how insignificantly smaller the hardcore player base is compared to standard with the graph below.



You can tell that the hardcore player base is small just by looking at the price of divines in softcore vs hardcore economy. Softcore has high demand, but lower supply, thus a higher price. Hardcore has low demand, and high supply, thus a cheaper price. It also doesn't help that the amount of people who would actually use these high value currencies for their intended use are not in hardcore for the most part.

There is no reason to play hardcore in the current state of the game, and the current state of league difficulty balancing. This 1st people to die and complain about a new leagues difficulty are hardcore players. The only thing separating a hardcore player from a softcore player is a log out macro. It takes 0 skill to play a safe build and avoid rippy content simply for the sake of doing so.

- Where has the 50% hardcore player base migrated too? They simply migrated to SSF Softcore. A game where you can be 1 shot off screen, DC, lag, encounter a bug, or randomly engage in a new league with over tuned enemies is no place to have a Hardcore player base. Log out macro abuse completely destroys the achievement of playing in hardcore, rendering the entire game mode meaningless, even if you don't use one. In the eyes of everyone else, you just abused your way to where you are.

These days people don't want to deal with the BS death's and just enjoy the game. Whether or not you are in a trade economy or not.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Icholas wrote:

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shadowthedead wrote:

There's a lot of HC haters out there lol i'm wondering why

Right? Weirdly strong opinions about it for folks who mostly don't play it.

My uneducated (not a psychologist) guess is its a (lack of) self esteem thing. Basically they believe themselves (subconsciously) inferior due to playing the easiest mode. And that causes the aggressive/hostile/evasive behavior.

Just take a look at the type of posts you and your fellow HC players made in this topic. It really isn't that hard to see why people respond the way they do. Hint: It's not "hatred" towards HC, it's "hatred" towards HC players. And it's well deserved.

I am a little salty about not getting hc events this time. Only real reason I guess is that there wont be a meaningful ladder where I can track my progress against others.

You watch too much streaming to think every HC player play with a logout macro

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Jgizle wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Got some supporting evidence? You made/implied quite a few claims which need to be true for your statement to make sense. As it is with you providing neither evidence nor reasoning I rather believe the real reason of you posting is otherwise.

Evidence? Sure!

- 96k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Softcore
- 14k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Hardcore

- 19k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor SSF Softcore
- 9k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor SSF Hardcore

- 5k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Ruthless Softcore
- 1k people have reached 90+ on Ancestor Ruthless Hardcore

These numbers are essentially the same for Crucible, and most leagues in general. This does not count hidden profiles, or people who have not hit 90+, or people who have played hardcore and died before 90.

These are some numbers for one of the implied claims such as maybe "there are too few HC players to matter"(*). Im not sure they properly support the claim though. Obviously its easier to reach lvl 90 in SC than in HC. So just putting out those numbers like that doesnt mean much. Also Ruthless XP gains are much harder so those 90+ cant be fairly compared to the above 90+. Also just adding up the non-Ruthless numbers: its 96+19 vs 14+9 => ~17% HC, ~83% SC.

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Jgizle wrote:

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/a/Sone7TD

According to your own above numbers SSF has more HC vs SC ratio.

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Jgizle wrote:

You can tell that the hardcore player base is small just by looking at the price of divines in softcore vs hardcore economy. Softcore has high demand, but lower supply, thus a higher price. Hardcore has low demand, and high supply, thus a cheaper price. It also doesn't help that the amount of people who would actually use these high value currencies for their intended use are not in hardcore for the most part.

How can you conclude "small" here? I dont see it. And dont forget that HC characters can RIP. My guess is also that the Divines here are influenced by the league mechanic not causing RIPs while also giving out lots Divines.

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Jgizle wrote:

There is no reason to play hardcore in the current state of the game, and the current state of league difficulty balancing. This 1st people to die and complain about a new leagues difficulty are hardcore players.

Really? I sure dont remember ever complaining about that. Maybe they are not a coherent group?

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Jgizle wrote:

The only thing separating a hardcore player from a softcore player is a log out macro.

Dont have a logout macro. Play some SC (this league) also though.

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Jgizle wrote:

It takes 0 skill to play a safe build and avoid rippy content simply for the sake of doing so.

Whats your point here?

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Jgizle wrote:

Log out macro abuse completely destroys the achievement of playing in hardcore, rendering the entire game mode meaningless, even if you don't use one. In the eyes of everyone else, you just abused your way to where you are.

No. You != everyone.

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Jgizle wrote:

These days people don't want to deal with the BS death's and just enjoy the game. Whether or not you are in a trade economy or not.

For some HC is more enjoyable than SC.

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(*) Note the multiple implied claims - like:
1) X is "very niche".
2) X players do not know that.
3) X players "need" to know that.

X being the "niche" game modes. Not just HC. You have shown some numbers suggesting that HC is indeed at least somewhat "niche". In order for these to be useful to support the argument I quoted you would have to show #2 and #3 too.


Edit: fixed math

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Icholas wrote:

<snip>
Right? Weirdly strong opinions about it for folks who mostly don't play it.

My uneducated (not a psychologist) guess is its a (lack of) self esteem thing. Basically they believe themselves (subconsciously) inferior due to playing the easiest mode. And that causes the aggressive/hostile/evasive behavior.

Just take a look at the type of posts you and your fellow HC players made in this topic.

Which of my posts here prior to https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/post-reply/3445771#p25137524 are you referring to?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

It really isn't that hard to see why people respond the way they do. Hint: It's not "hatred" towards HC, it's "hatred" towards HC players. And it's well deserved.

Guess this is one of those remarks https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/post-reply/3445771#p25137524 is referring to.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Which of my posts here prior to https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/post-reply/3445771#p25137524 are you referring to?

It's not just your posts. This isn't a you a problem. This is a HC community problem that goes way beyond POE. I've seen this attitude in D2 and D3 as well. I've been playing different ARPGs for rougly 20 years now and i haven't met a single HC player in all this time who didn't have a massively inflated ego simply for the fact that he has an HC in front of his character name. And all of them, on the regular, make statements like these:

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Moonlight666X wrote:

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CAPSLOCK_ON wrote:

HC is a waste of time die to some random bullshit and back to campaign + lose equipped items to standard who has time/patience for that crap?

who wanna waste time on brainless cookie clicker which sc is?

[Removed by Support]

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cursorTarget wrote:

No HC = no PoE.

Brainless Cookie Clicking Simulator (SC) is a waste of time for me. Playing SC you ignore a HUGE part of deeply put in-game mechanics, you just don't care about anything, just pew-pew-pew, run-run, pew-pew and nothing more.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Icholas wrote:

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shadowthedead wrote:

There's a lot of HC haters out there lol i'm wondering why

Right? Weirdly strong opinions about it for folks who mostly don't play it.

My uneducated (not a psychologist) guess is its a (lack of) self esteem thing. Basically they believe themselves (subconsciously) inferior due to playing the easiest mode. And that causes the aggressive/hostile/evasive behavior.

And then you wonder why people are shitting on HC/HC players. Well, try reading them a few more times, maybe you'll find out.