The Self Found League
" I'm not talking about releasing a non-online client. Self found would just be similar to what D2 did with the single player mode. Most people who play solo don't bother with the economy anyway. Most people who play solo only *do* bother with the economy because they're stuck due to the shit drop rate for solo players. I mean, think about it: only *one* person in a party of 6 needs to have IIR and IIQ to get the buff. The rest of the party can have high DPS/damage mitigation and tank for the person who has the IIR/IIQ. When playing solo and self found, that type of IIQ and IIR is impossible for anything but one or two builds, and it's the ONLY way to actually get enough wealth to roll things later in the game. The game is based too much around trade and magic find. If they want to make the game fun for solo players, they're going to have to do something about this. It doesn't even have to be a self-found league, but...something. |
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" That is exactly why he is opposed to a self-found league. " self-found != solo A self-found player still parties up with other players. |
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"You mean like 131% more rares and uniques and 40% more currency for zero-IIQ/IIR solo players... without any major change to rare/unique/currency drops for IIQ/IIR stackers, including groups using the Culling MF strategy? http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/502387 That thread, gentle readers, is how to make every league a Self-Found League. Separatism is unnecessary. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Aug 19, 2013, 6:57:22 AM
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Spoiler
This was part of my point. A non-online client would almost make more sense for self-found players. So why waste server resources, which are surely limited, to provide a single-player type experience (which some exiles are already experiencing)? This seems inefficient.
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Spoiler
Personally, I like having the option to participate in the economy, even if I don't choose to participate most of the time.
You have highlighted the real problem in your above statement: drop rates or loot mechanics for solo players, not to mention a fail trading system. "
Spoiler
I would argue that the game currently does not have a real trading system, thus it is not based too much around trade. However, I do agree that the game might be based too much around magic find (maybe too much focus on stacking IIQ and IIR to gamble for loot and not enough focus on rewarding players for simply playing and exploring).
I play solo (98% of the time), and the game is fun to me in its current state. I would, however, like 'something' to be done for solo-players. I would be happy to hear some of the philosophies of Chris and the Devs regarding solo-play loot mechanics. TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional. Last edited by Perfect_Black#6704 on Aug 19, 2013, 7:49:40 AM
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" Congratulations on getting a reply. That's definitely a miracle in this thread. The reply sounds like a case of nothing is going to be allowed to reduce the dependence on the economic trading simulator... must keep all the rich traders happy so they can keep inflating the economy and stuff anyone who disagrees. Sorry GGG but looks like what cash I have is going to support Grim Dawn and enjoy playing a proper hack n' slash ARGP not a trading game. Will see what the info is, if it ever gets posted, but not sounding good. |
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" Nice to finally get a comment on the subject but probably we'll have to wait until the release to get a proper update. No longer a forum dweller, please use PM for contact purposes.
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" Glad you found Grim Dawn. Isn't it just nice, that there is a game for everyone? Danskere: PM mig, hvis I har brug for en guild.
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The more I think about this suggestion and the way the discussion has evolved, the less I think I can remain behind it.
Initially I supported this suggestion due to the obvious fact that self found players, particularly those who prefer solo play, are at a demonstrable disadvantage in terms of gear progression. After more thought, this remains clearly true, but I don't know that I necessarily think it's a bad thing. Trading, for those who like it, can only really be seen as a shortcut in gear progression and I have to assume that the devs are intelligent enough to be aware of this and happy with it's existence. Removing trade from one league isn't something I really take exception to, until I consider the law of unintended consequence. While it has been summarily dismissed by most supporters of this suggestion (and, initially, by me as well), I firmly believe, after more consideration, that Scrotie's concern about the number of people who would ditch trade leagues for this one is a valid one. Until this suggestion grows to include safeguards for other perfectly legitimate play styles within PoE, I don't think I want to be a part of it. My goal has never been to get what I want at the expense of people who like having access to that gearing shortcut. Given the boost to IIQ/IIR that this suggestion asks for (which I don't personally agree with), I don't think the migration to SFL would be limited only to those who are presently invisible to the existing league economies. The lure is just too strong. This jeopardizes the trade league environment and I won't support that. I do think something needs to change, but this suggestion, as it currently exists and appears to be moving, is no longer the way I think things should go. I think this primarily because the problem isn't in gear drop rates or in the RNG. In my opinion, drop rates for gear are fine where they are now. Even for those who aren't satisfied with them as they stand, there is already a mechanism in game to boost rates to absurd levels. As such, I think IIQ/IIR boosts in such a league are a bad idea. RNG is also perfectly needed, in my opinion. In order to make some attempt to stave off the power creep that would be realized if every player got decked out with BiS gear too quickly, GGG must find ways to slow the progression to BiS items. Given the ridiculous drop rates achievable with IIQ/IIR stacking, this can only really be done through RNG in both drops and crafting. I know this won't be a particularly welcome sentiment, but I honestly believe that the RNG needs to be in place, even in the tiers affixes roll on items. As I see it, the real problem is that for solo/self found players, gear progression is too heavily constricted by the way crafting orbs are tied to the economy. In a dev diary from February 2011 Chris opened with, "Path of Exile’s economy is the most important element of the game to us." (citation: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55102) This is where I think the core of the problem lies. By trying to control the rate at which currency (i.e. crafting items) enter the economy, GGG have effectively limited the alternative to trading to only those who trade. The crafting system in PoE is basically pulling on a slot machine, given it's RNG nature (which, as I said before, is needed). The problem is that if you play self found you are severely limited in the number of pulls you're allowed to take on that slot machine, all because you don't want the shortcut. In the interest of protecting the game's economy, GGG have limited their crafting system to only those who take part in the economy. In my view, crafting needs to be an alternative to economic participation, not a reward for it. If GGG were to unhinge crafting from the economy, while leaving the wild randomness intact, they could allow self found players more pulls on the one armed bandit without fear of destroying what, in Chris' own words, is the most important aspect of the game to them. Last edited by Thaelyn#0781 on Aug 19, 2013, 10:42:21 AM
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An easy fix for this would be to make the rarer, high-end orbs guarantee improvement. For example, rather than randomize all the values on an item, blessed and divine could be guaranteed to improve one value on an item. You'd still churn through a LOT of them to get a perfect item, but you'd have control of your destiny, and you can make progress self-found.
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" I can't speak for GGG, but I do believe that your ideas go against the whole philosophy behind and design of PoE's currency system. Also, self-found is self-found regardless of guaranteed improvements or complete modifier randomization. TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional. Last edited by Perfect_Black#6704 on Aug 19, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
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