The Self Found League

After building a high-IIQ, high-IIR summoner and playing it solo, I've figured something out which eluded me earlier: You guys are blaming trading for something that isn't trading's fault. Your unwillingness to trade isn't what's holding you back; failing to stack IIQ and IIR is what is hampering your progress. Unless, of course, you group — in which case, some dedicated Culling MFer is rendering your lack of MF moot. But in any case, this thread is a bunch of solo players getting frustrated with crap drops and scapegoating the trade system instead of the true culprits (IIQ/IIR).

So really, this entire thread is predicated on a false premise.

Now in terms of the IIQ and IIR stacking problem, I refer you to another thread of mine.

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Vakirauta wrote:

Today's Bump - 18.08.2013

Chris has not replied yet.

He'll probably reply when the new week start. Keep us updated.

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Vakirauta wrote:

Isn't it funny that all the players whom have completed all 8 so-called challenges are the biggest traders in the game?

I am disappointed that this game is advertised as an ARPG.

Flamebait much?

Hi

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You guys are blaming trading for something that isn't trading's fault. Your unwillingness to trade isn't what's holding you back; failing to stack IIQ and IIR is what is hampering your progress.

Sorry but I disagree ScrotieMCB. I do not blame trade as much as I would blame the greedy traders that over inflate everything. Is it any coincidence that all the top players continue to inflate the economy?

I just want to play the game without having to worry about the rng in this game forcing me to trade every orb, without ever crafting, I find or being forced to sit around and stack mf for a caster/ranged char because melee(my favorite) is screwed when it comes to decent equipment that has mf rolls.

ScrotieMCB

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So really, this entire thread is predicated on a false premise.

REALLY? 70+ pages all based on false premise?
Yet again I mention that if you don't want a self found league no one is forcing you too and if you don't like the idea give better reasons ''besides its your fault because you don't stack mf''

cheers

i don't really agree with the self found league for individuals who hate trading and going solo style. This is a multi-player game after all and players should have the option to interact and trade with each other or choose not to. However, I do agree that trading is a big hassle and is a necessity end-game. 3 solutions that can remedy this is to:

1 - create a nice in-game marketing system as i have experienced in many other games such as Vindictus from Nexon.
2 - improve the crafting system where its possible to create end game gear through solo play without ridiculous orb rates and hours a player has to invest in to some extent.
3 - create new quests/dungeons that is equally rewarding and difficult.

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Vakirauta wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

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Vakirauta wrote:

Isn't it funny that all the players whom have completed all 8 so-called challenges are the biggest traders in the game?

I am disappointed that this game is advertised as an ARPG.

Flamebait much?

There's no flaming, but facts. See for yourself here - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/477503 (thanks to ignarsoll)

Would you like to contribute to the discussion?

"I am disappointed that this game is advertised as an ARPG."

That's a flamebait.

"Would you like to contribute to the discussion?"

Also a flamebait.

Protip: If you want to get to GGG, that attitude isn't helping.

just read page 1. and just referring to the suggestion of OP and the positive replies to it:

if u have enhanced drop rates - lets say just about twice as much rares/uniques - and u cant trade the items you find you will be geared ALOT worse than if u can sell the items u do not need for yourself and get the stuff u actually need (since theres such a wide variety of builds). its unlikely ull find exactly what u need. they would have to buff currency drops to a degree where every1 can craft their own endgame items to come anywhere close to the situation of a poor player playing in any of the leages we have atm.

€: mixed up two threads i read simultaneously, OP didnt even say anything about bots, so removed that part :S

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

After building a high-IIQ, high-IIR summoner and playing it solo, I've figured something out which eluded me earlier: You guys are blaming trading for something that isn't trading's fault. Your unwillingness to trade isn't what's holding you back; failing to stack IIQ and IIR is what is hampering your progress. Unless, of course, you group — in which case, some dedicated Culling MFer is rendering your lack of MF moot. But in any case, this thread is a bunch of solo players getting frustrated with crap drops and scapegoating the trade system instead of the true culprits (IIQ/IIR).

So really, this entire thread is predicated on a false premise.

Now in terms of the IIQ and IIR stacking problem, I refer you to another thread of mine.

Scrotie, I know you're smarter than this argument. Self-Found isn't solely about "crap drops," that's just a small part of it. Crap drops are also not solely about MF, you can't deny that the loot system is inherently balanced around trading.

Lastly, if your premise is that "trading isn't the problem, it's just your low MF" then that's still a HUGE problem. If you're going to be economically fucked unless you run an MF build (MF builds, by the way, are extremely limiting skill-wise and tend to be boring cookie-cutter builds), it is still awfully poor game design to require a high MF character to participate in the economy.

However you slice it, there's still a big problem and a Self-Found League is the most elegant solution anyone has thought of. I know that you and a handful of Path of Trading Tycoon players are fear-mongering and yelling that a SFL would ruin the game, but there is no reason to think that would be the case unless you make several rather-large assumptions and logical leaps of faith.

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...a Self-Found League is the most elegant solution anyone has thought of.

A reward system for solo players (beyond those large shimmering chests) could be far more elegant, imo.

For example, instances could impose rules similar to "If only 1 player in instance, IIR and/or IIQ accumulate based on monsters slain, damage avoided, objects interacted with (like Chests and Boulders), map explored, etc. IIQ and IIR support gems have no effect."

Another example, "If only 1 player in instance, Item Rarity increases and Item Quantity decreases against area bosses for each monster slain. Rare and magic monsters provide larger multipliers. IIQ and IIR support gems have no effect against area bosses." (clearing an entire instance before killing the area boss would maximize Item Rarity at the expense of Item Quantity)

A final example, "If only 1 player in instance, Item Quantity from Chests increases for each monster slain."


Somehow tie item rewards to solo-characters' interactions within Wraeclast.
Cold RNG brings icy tears.

My thoughts.

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Perfect_Black wrote:

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...a Self-Found League is the most elegant solution anyone has thought of.

A reward system for solo players (beyond those large shimmering chests) could be far more elegant, imo.

For example, instances could impose rules similar to "If only 1 player in instance, IIR and/or IIQ accumulate based on monsters slain, damage avoided, objects interacted with (like Chests and Boulders), map explored, etc. IIQ and IIR support gems have no effect."

Another example, "If only 1 player in instance, Item Rarity increases and Item Quantity decreases against area bosses for each monster slain. Rare and magic monsters provide larger multipliers. IIQ and IIR support gems have no effect against area bosses." (clearing an entire instance before killing the area boss would maximize Item Rarity at the expense of Item Quantity)

A final example, "If only 1 player in instance, Item Quantity from Chests increases for each monster slain."

Somehow tie item rewards to solo-characters' interactions within Wraeclast.
Cold RNG brings icy tears.

My thoughts.

In scientific terms, an "elegant" solution is one that sufficiently accomplishes the goal with the least amount of complexity. The less complexity, the less likelihood for unintended consequences. SFL is straight-forward and simple. It also gives a large group of people exactly what they want with little-to-no downside (save for wildly speculative doomsday prophecies).

All other solutions (like your solo MF buff solution) have a large amount of variables and become unnecessarily complex. They also generally only address part of the goal of SFL. One part of it is the poor quality of trading-based drop and crafting systems. Another part is the general distaste for trading simulators that generally detract from the substance and immersion of an ARPG. A third part is simply the added challenge and forced diversity when you can't simply face-roll with Unique-reliant cookie-cutter builds.

Because all other solutions are needlessly complex and still fail to address the full purpose of removing trading, they are not anywhere near as "elegant" as simply creating a Self-Found league.