The Self Found League
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+1 to SFL
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HAs any of the Developers yet brought a good argument, why they don t want SFL?
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Self Found = fun :o. Played self founda nd solo `till lvl 79, but then it became sadly obvious that if i wanted to further level I would need high lvl mapping, and to survive on high lvl maps I needed to boost my char...by trading :c. Mea Culpa, I was weak, fell to the temptation u.u ..now power consumed me!
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" One dev responded in a SFL thread with his opinion that a SFL wasn't needed and that he thought players needed more access to 4L's. Didn't make a lot of sense to me. Edit: Found it, here is the quote from Qarl
Spoiler
I can give my current thoughts on self found. In the existing leagues, there is nothing stopping anyone from playing self-found, and we know many of our players do. We also have players that only engage rarely with other players, trading and partying occasionally. So, as you can play self found in an existing league, I doubt we need to separate out the leagues. The question then is, are there progression problems with self found. I think there are two parts to this: Can you play through self found? Currently there are issues with this, especially around the 40s. One of the main problems here is the availability of 4-linked items. Gear progression gets hard here, as replacement gear requires both beating existing gear in stats, and in skill support. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full skill sets, and can skimp on stats and still progress quickly. If we are going to make changes, it will likely be on the ability to make or the availability of 4 linked items. The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-found play. In general the main issue comes when players look to the top of ladders and to streamers to direct what their play experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to achieve. In general these players are pushing every advantage they can from trade, long play, group play. Often, when I get told - "everyone is doing X", and I have a look, there are often only a handful of people doing, its just often these are the most visible. An example of this is 6-link Shavronne's. If I look at over level 90 characters, in all leagues, played in the last month, well under 50 players have Shavronne's Wrappings equipped. And if I look at the stats, if you want to die, wear a Shavronne's. We will not be making a league to make it possible to replicate the play of these players. 1) We don't think its needed. 2) From past experience, if we make accommodations to make it possible to replicate these players, these players will still beat you. If we made a self found league with competitive advantages but solo play, you'll see the same players on top of those leagues, and we'll get a new set of complaints from people who want to replicate the achievements without the same investment. Standard Forever Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Dec 26, 2013, 5:14:37 AM
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What I get from Qarls response is that the game is only going to feel rewarding to people who take every major advantage that they can through trading and group play.
So basically if you play solo and don't play the trade game your just not going to get very much. That is why the drop rates are so bad. Standard Forever
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" I think the most evident thing is from Qarls post is that he ignores the fact that self found players are at severe disadvantage compared to players that trade, and its not just due to 4L's Last edited by deteego#6606 on Dec 26, 2013, 5:58:46 AM
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I think it's a bad idea. I also think it's never going to happen.
Last edited by TheDudeOfGaming#2658 on Dec 26, 2013, 6:15:11 AM
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Don t they understand that its also about getting away from the botting economy?
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"The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-found play. In general the main issue comes when players look to the top of ladders and to streamers to direct what their play experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to achieve. In general these players are pushing every advantage they can from trade, long play, group play"
- I think this has some validity to it. Some folks look at those who invest a LOT of time and who trade and run in consistent groups, and they want their characters to be as powerful. That makes no sense to me. However I think Qarl is confused as to the main reason people want to have a SFL. It isn't so that the game becomes a cake walk where everyone has godly gear and destroys the content with ease. Rather, it is to even the RNG gradient such that a reasonable amount of effort gives (on average) positive results such that progression is possible and play time is rewarding. Put succinctly. Imagine two players, player A is the HC constant player and player B is casual. A plays for 2 months at 8 hours a day every day. B plays for 6 months and at the end averages the same amount of time invested as A. B will still be lagging behind A at the end of 6 months even if B stopped playing after 2 (on average). Self found proponents just want A and B to be the same after the same amount of time is invested. "the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG Happy hunting/fishing |
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In my opinion SF target is to put your own effort and pace into the game, and be rewarded accordingly, considering of course luck as well. Basically, it would be much more fun for some players, if there was a league where not everyone has 6-L armor and weapon just buying them with 30 exalts because you wouldnt have more exalts than those you actually dropped, nor you would buy the other person's super gear, coz you'd have to get your own drops, your own uniques, and your own base/rare items to craft as much as you can. Craft, craft, craft. Use those currencies YOU yourself got dropped, trying to get powerful. Use as many fusings as you can trying to get a 5l , and if you'r lucky enough, or wealthy (played a long time) enough, to get a 6l, CONGRATULATIONS!.
SFL wouldn't be likely to have op characters, nor fairly easy acess to super gear, nor everyone trying to buy the same Bringer of Rain , or shavronne/s, or kaom's...or etc etc etc. SFL would have players that slowly grow powerful, by trying to craft their own gear, and using whatever uniques his/her luck made them drop. This would further increase difference between character's gears , high points and weak ones. Not having everyone copy unique items, or rares with max roll life, res, and armor/es/evasion. PoE has an exquisite crafting system with so many variables, so many tiers on different kinds of mods, numbers of mods, item rarity, item level, number of sockets, color of sockets, links, etc etc etc...It would be nice if we could actually exploit those trying to increase our own power, rather than just buying "pre-made" items at usually much cheaper cost than spending currencies on our own. I even think a SFL could run with the same drop as normal leagues, although this mighjt be a little too hard of course, and even I would prefer for a drop that would adjust better to the needs (specially chromatics for gem build, i believe)........however even with same drop as standard, the game would run nicely, perhaps nerfing some of endgame map bosses and modifiers. Maybe another possible addition to SFL would be more vendor recipes, or items on their sell window. Being the idea to further exploit the currency, for crafting reasons, and as well to benefit from rare currency or uniques you might drop, rather than losing their value in a few fragments. A very rare yet possible example, if you were to drop a mirror of kalandra on SFL, NPC vendor should give you some nice currency in exchange so that you might actually have obtained something good in relation to it's rarity. Or adding whatever kind of recipes requiring unique items, to give some use to those you don't need. In the end you can proudly show the character you built, and share your power in parties which will be very much needed endgame. Last edited by Drkzaleos#0760 on Dec 26, 2013, 1:37:01 PM
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