Path of Exile: Siege of the Atlas Teasers

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rekikyo wrote:

So let me get this straight; After you go into Rampage with Dancing Dervish, you now have to fight Unarmed while your sword fights beside you?

That's how it always was. Difference it seems is that manifest dancing dervish changes to manifest dancing dervishes, plural, so it's probably the same now as dancing duo. Also, you can maintain rampage without kills as long as you're melee hitting. There's lots of unarmed attack options and OP skills in the game.

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rekikyo wrote:

So let me get this straight; After you go into Rampage with Dancing Dervish, you now have to fight Unarmed while your sword fights beside you?

Well, the only solution is "Hollow Palm" since they delete one minion of the Duo,with the continuing nerfs to summoning builds. It is OBVIOUS that you cannot regard it as a summoner item any more.

Chris: "Well, it is not bad, you can EVEN get 6 extra sockets (to level your gems) and RAMPAGE for free!!! It is rather a HUGE buff!"

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rekikyo wrote:

[...]
I could see this item enabling a Fire Burn build literally melting bosses to Ignite, or perma 99% slowing a boss with Cold before it kills in 2 seconds, or instantly 160% effect Shocking a boss for over Quadruple Lightning damage - Lucky.
[...]

Ignite and penetration, yep.
99% chill when hardcap is 30%, 40% on elementalist, yep.
160% shock for quadruple dmg when shock cap is 50%, yep.
Yep, yep, yep.. mhm.. yep.

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rekikyo wrote:

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vio wrote:

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jsuslak313 wrote:

omniscience looks broken af...


Intermittent Phys immunity, or permanent with Replica Eternity Shroud.

Your comment about permanent with replica eternity shroud should raise eyebrows to anyone reading it. 45s cooldown!=permanent

I'm more interested in Dancing Dervish Fix on Cyclone Range. It's a pain when you have +15 AoE and the Cyclone looks small

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yakoob wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

[...]
I could see this item enabling a Fire Burn build literally melting bosses to Ignite, or perma 99% slowing a boss with Cold before it kills in 2 seconds, or instantly 160% effect Shocking a boss for over Quadruple Lightning damage - Lucky.
[...]

Ignite and penetration, yep.
99% chill when hardcap is 30%, 40% on elementalist, yep.
160% shock for quadruple dmg when shock cap is 50%, yep.
Yep, yep, yep.. mhm.. yep.

Okay. Apparently a nub moment, because I've never had cause to look up a cap.

BUT: We're talking about bosses, which have augmented Ailment Thresholds. For all intents and purposes, the numbers I mentioned are realistic compared to what you normally do. Most bosses you are lucky to apply a 10-16% Shock effect or a 6% Slow from Chill. Multiplicatively the penetration erases that, and will let people strongly go for the 30/50.

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rekikyo wrote:

On Shock: There are ways to gain more than a 50% Cap on Shock. Voltaxic Rift is 100%, and there is a mastery that gives other builds 60%.

If you have a Voltaxic Rift with this build, the result is literally around 400% damage, because you are dealing raw damage on hit to in some cases -110% Resistances, to -200% Resistances.

Suppose your Voltaxic rift build has a DPS of 12 million DPS vs Sirus. Sirus has 50/50/50/30 Resistances. At 12 mil DPS, you do about a 36% innate Shock effect. Voltaxic's innate modifier that makes a boss take a shock as if taking 300% damage raises this 36% to above 50%, because of its other innate value that raises the Shock Threshold to 100%. 36 mil effective DPS results in about a 55% Effect of Shock. Now, let's compare the two, given only lightning and chaos damage.
Suppose -48% Pen vs -158% Pen

Normal:
Chaos Damage: 12,000,000(.6)(.7) = 5,040,000 Damage
Lightning Damage: 12,000,000(.4)(.98) = 4,704,000
Combined Damage with Shock: 9,744,000(1.53 (shock of 29.2 mil)) = 14,908,320 Damage to Sirus.

With Amulet/1100 Stats:
Chaos Damage: 12,000,000(.6)(.7) = 5,040,000 Damage
Lightning Damage: 12,000,000(.4)(2.08) = 9,984,000 Damage
Combined Damage with Shock: 15,024,000(1.65 (shock value of 45 million)) = 24,789,600

That's a 10,000,000 difference in damage, or roughly 71% Increase.

It's also worth noting; That's NOT a max Attribute build. That's a pretty basic middle ground build with only 1100 Stats. On a Build with Voltaxic with Increased Effect of Shock Modifiers (I didn't include them yet), and -200% Lightning Resistance, the damage will Cap out at 100% Increased Shock Damage, and will do more raw base damage.

Now..... let's assume we lose a little of our base DPS because of chasing some attributes. I'm going to reduce 12,000,000 DPS to 10,000,000 DPS just for the joke of it.

Here's 100%/-200%:

Chaos Damage: 10,000,000(.6)(.7) = 4,200,000 Damage
Lightning Damage: 10,000,000(.4)(2.98) = 11,920,000
Combined Damage with Shock: 16,120,000(2.0) = 32,240,000.

The Ignite argument is correct on its face, because the ignite applying effect will literally have to deal with negative fire resist, which is the problem that makes Fire damage generally a poor matchup for most end game bosses.

If you have 15 mil DPS but only 48% Penetration vs a boss that has 90% Fire res, the result is a calculation where you only do 8,700,000, and Ignite worth 17,400,000 when over a total of 4 seconds.

If the same base damage were applied with 200% Fire Penetration, the result is a 31,500,000 hit that does Ignite damage of 63,000,000 over 4 seconds.

VAST difference.

I'm guessing your comment on Ignite was that because DoT doesn't usually reflect Penetration. However, Ignite derives its initial damage from a Hit, so Yes. It's one of the only DoT that DOES reflect resistances. Burn intrinsically doesn't, like that from Flame Dash or Flame Wall.

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rekikyo wrote:

EDIT: I'm wrong on this point so disregard the Ignite convo. It's still worth mentioning the initial Hit on a Fire build will be much larger after modification. I'm not going to delete the convo and pretend it didn't happen.

Now, I know that trying to get enough stats to get to 200 Penetration (the 48% you had in the initial build + 1520 Omniscience) requires some build alterations you wouldn't normally do. However, that's a number of attributes that's actually at a manageable level, and doesn't really require that much investment. A scion can grab both Attribute wheels on the Skill Tree, as well as an innate 180 from Ascending, and gain about another 300-400 base just from creating their tree to get around to Clusters. All they need is to craft a Attribute belt, and pick up some 60 Stat rolls on some gear, and they can achieve 1520 Omniscience without really trying, and STILL build close to the same base DPS as they did without the attribute build.

You're not ever going to bridge the gap between a build that still has to deal with base boss Resists and a build that doesn't. Ever.

Curses don't even bypass core boss resists anymore. Exposure usually isn't strong enough on top of curses to break through either, or if it does, it only brings them to about -10% to -20%. The game has no minimum limit on ele penetration.

Doryani's is literally the exception to the rule on single target damage. Every other build to this date, other than an "Ignores Resistance" rule has not had an easy time of dealing with ele resistances other than by blowing up damage to a point where it no longer mattered.

You need to check your facts. Penetration affects ignite in no way. The strength of the ignite debuff is not derived from the final hit. It's derived from the base hit damage. Only thing that affects this base is added damage. Resistance calculations are way further on, and are done seperately for the final hit damage and the ignite debuff. Ignite cannot penetrate because it is not a hit. There's alot of assumption in your posts without actual mechanical knowledge to back it up so please, for the sake of not spreading misinformation. Check yourself.

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Bardharr wrote:

You need to check your facts. Penetration affects ignite in no way. The strength of the ignite debuff is not derived from the final hit. It's derived from the base hit damage. Only thing that affects this base is added damage. Resistance calculations are way further on, and are done seperately for the final hit damage and the ignite debuff. Ignite cannot penetrate because it is not a hit. There's alot of assumption in your posts without actual mechanical knowledge to back it up so please, for the sake of not spreading misinformation. Check yourself.

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I am wrong on the resistance impacting the initial hit but I never claimed resistance directly affects the ignite. I was arguing an indirect point, due to Ignite being derived from hits. Apparently that's wrong.

We're still arguing semantics though, as the damage increase to the intial hit is plenty to argue the absolutism to the effect of the amulet, even moreso if you are an elementalist and all damage can Shock.

I don't see anyone else here pulling out their calculations.

I'm not disputing the power of the amulet at all. Initially I thought this an interesting gimmick option along the lines of statstacking. From the getgo you can see its power in giving the player access to previously unattainable levels of elemental penetration.

However, looking at newly released uniques in a vacuum can skew reality quite a bit. Yes, theoretically you will gain a lot of penetration. But this penetration has to come from somewhere, namely stat stacking. Penetration , like increased damage, suffers from diminishing returns. Most stat stacking builds benefit from more than one stat-based modifier multiplying their damage. As others have pointed out you lose almost all your stats (which is not the case with regular stat stackers) which means you lose out on the defensive and offensive stats that go with them. On top of that, the amulet slot is already saturated with good options to increase your dps.

Again, I don't doubt it will be powerful. I'm just sceptical this power will make up for the opportunity cost attached to it. Without some PoB wizardry it will be nigh on impossible to tell whether or not this is going to be BiS for a certain build because it is such a build defining item on it's own. I will wait for some practical testing to be done before I decide if it's workable.

...But that wasn't the reason why I posted what I posted. I prefer information that is being shared to be correct. Otherwise the information being shared is counterproductive, because it needs to be corrected later, which is much harder than spreading misinformation in the first place. I would not consider it to just be semantics, if the information provided skews the image of reality. I am somewhat of a lurker on these forums, and this is not the first time I've been miffed at one of your posts, specifically for the reason of faulty statements on game mechanics in a adamant way. Hence why I posted.

That is all.

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Havoc is gonna cry, cry, cry this league ;)