Please Remove 10% Exp Loss on Death

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Fruz wrote:

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demon9675 wrote:

The 10% penalty is perfectly reasonable until you get to 90+ where I think it could start to decline by 1% per level or so. Maybe even level out at 5%.

It’s very important to have a strong motive to improve your character, therefore the penalty must stay. But losing 8% at level 92 is still going to be just as strong a motive as losing 10%. And losing 5% at level 98 is going to be just as maddening as 10%; I really don’t think we’d suddenly see everyone stop investing in defense.

If it was like this from the beginning we’d still have seen all the same builds and behaviors, with maybe a few additional level 100 players (not that I care about that metric whatsoever).

Do you think that people around here would stop complain the way they do though ?
I think that it would pretty much change nothing, it would slightly change some player's soft levelcap and that would be it imo.

Correct. And that’s the only thing that could use a little tweak imo.

But, like with all true compromise, both sides would be furious. On the one hand, people would rip into GGG for abandoning their principles and claim it’s a slippery slope to no exp penalty and threaten to quit. On the other, people would claim its a meaningless change that adds insult to injury and threaten to quit.

I still think it’d make the game slightly better at that stage, but I recognize that the politics make it impossible. Not gonna stop me from throwing it out there, though.

You are contradicting yourself OP. You say this is just an rng loot rpg where skill and learning shouldn't matter. But if this game is all about looting then why do you even care about the xp loss? You don't need level 100 to keep looting, in fact it doesn't matter at all what level you have unless you are one of those elitists.

You are also missing another point. Sure, the death penalty migh drive away a certain type of players, but removing it would do the very same thing. You can see it in this forum literally every day in every topic. Half the people here think this game is too fast and too easy and the other half thinks it's too slow and too difficult. GGG is trying to satify both groups to some extent which is probably the better approach to maintaining a player base than completely neglecting one group.

I guess if all you want is free gratification then the death penalty appears pointless but some people actually like to earn what they get. Level 100 in a game without death penalty would be meaningless. If GGG removed that they might as well just give us a way to start a new char at level 100 with all the story cleared. That way we wouldn't have to waste our lifetime leveling up right?

With the many one shot mechanics the game employs it's very easy ,even for a meta build, to be killed instantly.

In that regard it's very frustrating to loose 10% exp points, that you need to play a lot in order to regain. In fact you may loose them again,the moment you have recovered them, because some reflect mob ,you didn't notice, entered the screen and one shot you. Or because an enemy spellcaster casted the spell which produces a lightning humanoid that chases you around and can one shot you as well.

The reality of the matter is that no player can prepare/defend against every thing that can kill them ingame and so i'm in favour of removing this 10% limitation.

When the game offers no feedback on what just killed you and contains mobs that will randomly one shot you, "Get Gud" doesn't cut it and the experience loss is just an exercise in frustration. The continued deaths means the loss of your portals and the loot contained therein, that in itself is enough. I've made peace with never reaching 100, after all there is no real benefit, my build is ample for 99% of content as is, but there was a point and occasionally still is I could happily have rage quit over the XP loss, get rid is what I say.

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Yperkeimenos wrote:

With the many one shot mechanics the game employs it's very easy ,even for a meta build, to be killed instantly.

In that regard it's very frustrating to loose 10% exp points, that you need to play a lot in order to regain. In fact you may loose them again,the moment you have recovered them, because some reflect mob ,you didn't notice, entered the screen and one shot you. Or because an enemy spellcaster casted the spell which produces a lightning humanoid that chases you around and can one shot you as well.

The reality of the matter is that no player can prepare/defend against every thing that can kill them ingame and so i'm in favour of removing this 10% limitation.

With most metabuilds being complete glasscannons that's not exactly suprising. From that perspective it's actually a good thing that we have the xp penalty. Removing it would just be one less reason to play tanky melee builds.

PS: Lightning mirages really shouldn't oneshot you. Unless you get hit by 3+ at once they are hardly even a threat. Though I admit it's rather easy to get hit by a bunch of them at once with all the visual clutter on the screen.

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Yperkeimenos wrote:

In fact you may loose them again,the moment you have recovered them, because some reflect mob ,you didn't notice, entered the screen and one shot you.

You're like .... ~5 years too late for what you said yo have any credibility, reflect "mobs" don't exist apart from Atziri's plit phase and Izaro's cold lieutenant, which do not "enter the screen" without you noticing it.

If you don't know what awaits you in Wraeclast and just rush in there blindly without caution, your character will eventually die, that's for sure.

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Yperkeimenos wrote:

Or because an enemy spellcaster casted the spell which produces a lightning humanoid that chases you around and can one shot you as well.

Lightning mirages are slow, and as much as I would like more of an audio clue and as much as the visual clusterfuck that this game has become makes it very hard to see ( and thus a dangerous but in a very cheap way most of the time ), a mob does not just "cast the spell", it's triggered when you hit the rare mob with the related Nemesis modifier on it ( = Lightning mirage ).

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Yperkeimenos wrote:

The reality of the matter is that no player can prepare/defend against every thing that can kill them ingame

The reality of the matter is that some players consistently reach level 100 in SSF HC, which means that they "prepare/defend against every thing that can kill them ingame".

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untala wrote:

When the game offers no feedback on what just killed you and contains mobs that will randomly one shot you

The lack of a death recap is a fair complaint, although not directly related to the penalty on death, if at all.
However, the game does not contain "mobs that will randomly one shot you", not if you have a proper build and know its limit.
And if you have a proper end game build, all maps with any mods will not contain such mods, there might be maps that will be very dangerous, but I don't quite think that any of it will ever contain untelegraphed hit that will just "randomly one shot" you ever.
You might get instantly destroyed in the deadliest of maps, a lot can happen, but it's not a "one shot" scenario which changes everything regarding how to face the situation

Deep delves are another story though, but that's the whole point of it, it's scaling.

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The lack of a death recap is a fair complaint, although not directly related to the penalty on death, if at all.

I think there is massive connection between those 2 to be honest. The point of the death penalty is to show you that something is wrong with your char/gameplay and to force you to fix this issue. But if you have no way of finding out why you died in the first place then there is nothing to learn.

That's the point where you're only left with frustration. At least that's how I see it. If I know what killed me I can take precautions next time in order to avoid it. If I have no clue what happened I am bound to repeat the same mistake over and over again hoping that I manage to figure it out somehow sometime.

I'd even argue that the death penalty doesn't really serve it's purpose because of that.

How about this:

Every map only has one portal for each party member (but they don't vanish on death) and those players who die in a map lose all XP they've earned there.

In addition, the map resets in one of the following ways:

If nobody is left in the map,

- immediately after dying, monsters start respawning, starting from the entry point, spreading towards the rest of the map. All monsters that haven't died yet will regain their full health quickly.
- the portal goes back to the original entry point.
- only monsters that haven't been killed yet will give any XP or loot on the next try.
- anything that has been opened (breaches, abysses, strongboxes, etc.) will remain open.
- all dropped loot will vanish.


If somebody is still left,

- the portal of the player who died will go back to the original entry point.
- immediately after dying, monsters start respawning starting from the ebntry point, spreading towards the rest of the map. Monsters will only regain their health if no player is around.
- party-scaled difficulty in the map will remain.
- there's a short delay before the player who died can re-enter.


The benefits:

- the XP loss penalty is still there but at a much more reasonable level
- there's an additional punishment (repeat the map again "for free" to be able to complete it) but it's also giving the player a much better way to learn from their mistakes and practice more, especially when it comes to boss fights.
- party play gets a bit of an advantage if the remaining members can survive.
- "dying" through boss encounters doesn't work anymore since the bosses will regain their health once no player is close by.
- the portal limitation is gone so everyone can carry out as much loot as they want or leave the map for trading.


In addition to that, I'd also advocate for:

- harder boss fights especially in red-tier maps and a better balanced difficulty increase
- way better loot drop from bosses
- way more XP gain from killing bosses

as a way to motivate players to complete the maps.

https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Experience#Experience_Loss_In_Nightmare_and_Hell_Difficulty

Exp loss should be ingame but reworked. Some ideas from D2 could be used.