Please Remove 10% Exp Loss on Death

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vio wrote:

yep, risk and reward is a bit off with 10% xp loss.

they should replace the xp loss on death with some permadeath areas in softcore which are substantially more rewarding and remove hardcore league.

Ill would prob lose my shit on death but it's interesting idea. Would give different flavor to the game entirely.

On the other hand I wouldn't support just strait xp penalty removal. It would result in even more power chasing with builds and skipping defenses all together supporting even more mindless playing and getting bored even faster.

Perma death possibility? Sounds edgy and interesting. xD

My suggestion is to limit XP loss to the point at which you entered the area, so a map might yield zero Xp but not -60% of your next level.

We could throw dice after death. If you win, you get your lost experience back, if you lose, your character is removed along with all the mtx you bought, and your account is blocked and a tactical nuclear warhead is launched to your residence address

Peace,

-Boem-

In my opinion the experience penalty is the worst thing about PoE and I bet a lot of people have quit because of it. It's a weird thing though because I've played other games like D2 and MMOs that had penalties for dying yet they never bothered me one bit. Hell... you could even delevel if you lost experience when you had none in the MMO I played.

So why does the exp penalty feel so bad in poe? Well if we think about D2, experience was always done in a party which meant that if you died you almost certainly had someone to help retrieve your body. This resulted in you regaining 75% of the lost experience so in Diablo 2 the exp penalty was effectively 2.5% - way lower than in PoE. Another reason I think it's so bad in poe is because poe is WAY harder than D2 and MMOs in general as in those everything is simpler and more predictive, you quickly learn what you can and can't do while in poe there's so much more going on and I feel like every patch the devs purposely try to add things to catch out even very experienced players.

The best argument I can come up with against the exp penalty other than "it's not fun" is it discourages doing difficult content. So if you want to level up you simply do unchallenging content that due to the nature of poe is 95% of the time content that you could do blindfolded. I had a very bad experience this league where i got to level 98.93 two times before having a few really bad days where I ended up going down back to almost no experience. Logging in and losing a full level 98-99 worth of experience does not feel good. I really wanted to quit but to not "be beaten" by the game I forced myself to avoid maps / uber elder / any bosses (despite being able to do uber elder and the mastermind boss deathless the first few times on this character) and do only delve rotas, avoid all delve nodes with damage mods and when left with no option to do them completely ignoring darkness side areas.

Solution to death penalty - reward players for doing well instead of punishing for doing badly. For example if you haven't died for X% amount of experience you get +Y% exp bonus and on death you lose Z% of the experience bonus. If the exp bonus was capped at 100% then you'd need to double the amount of exp required for each level. Although on second thoughts this experience penalty could still feel like a punishment as you lose the exp bonus, but at least it allows you to mix in difficult content whenever you want without feeling so punished for doing so.

The 10% penalty is perfectly reasonable until you get to 90+ where I think it could start to decline by 1% per level or so. Maybe even level out at 5%.

It’s very important to have a strong motive to improve your character, therefore the penalty must stay. But losing 8% at level 92 is still going to be just as strong a motive as losing 10%. And losing 5% at level 98 is going to be just as maddening as 10%; I really don’t think we’d suddenly see everyone stop investing in defense.

If it was like this from the beginning we’d still have seen all the same builds and behaviors, with maybe a few additional level 100 players (not that I care about that metric whatsoever).

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Hugh888 wrote:

The best argument I can come up with against the exp penalty other than "it's not fun" is it discourages doing difficult content. So if you want to level up you simply do unchallenging content that due to the nature of poe is 95% of the time content that you could do blindfolded. I had a very bad experience this league where i got to level 98.93 two times before having a few really bad days where I ended up going down back to almost no experience. Logging in and losing a full level 98-99 worth of experience does not feel good. I really wanted to quit but to not "be beaten" by the game I forced myself to avoid maps / uber elder / any bosses (despite being able to do uber elder and the mastermind boss deathless the first few times on this character) and do only delve rotas, avoid all delve nodes with damage mods and when left with no option to do them completely ignoring darkness side areas.

Solution to death penalty - reward players for doing well instead of punishing for doing badly. For example if you haven't died for X% amount of experience you get +Y% exp bonus and on death you lose Z% of the experience bonus. If the exp bonus was capped at 100% then you'd need to double the amount of exp required for each level. Although on second thoughts this experience penalty could still feel like a punishment as you lose the exp bonus, but at least it allows you to mix in difficult content whenever you want without feeling so punished for doing so.

Invest into defenses more. I hate dying too, not that much because of xp penalty but because i feel defeated.

You are getting xp as reward and xp loss as punishment. Maybe it could be dropped few points but ultimately, getting more levels easier is just another power creep and that's the last thing this game needs.

Dying in SC doesn't stop you from doing content. That's why you have 6 portals. To die plenty. xD Going for lvl 100 is another story altogether.

i think its better to remove monsters form this game and instead make chests spawn at a certain rate at maps.. and the loot is destroyed if you are too slow... fastest man wins!!!


Kappa

Aahhhhhh

Nothing to escalate as fast as a good ol' "remove xp loss on death" thread !!

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demon9675 wrote:

The 10% penalty is perfectly reasonable until you get to 90+ where I think it could start to decline by 1% per level or so. Maybe even level out at 5%.

It’s very important to have a strong motive to improve your character, therefore the penalty must stay. But losing 8% at level 92 is still going to be just as strong a motive as losing 10%. And losing 5% at level 98 is going to be just as maddening as 10%; I really don’t think we’d suddenly see everyone stop investing in defense.

If it was like this from the beginning we’d still have seen all the same builds and behaviors, with maybe a few additional level 100 players (not that I care about that metric whatsoever).

Do you think that people around here would stop complain the way they do though ?
I think that it would pretty much change nothing, it would slightly change some player's soft levelcap and that would be it imo.

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Hugh888 wrote:

Solution to death penalty - reward players for doing well instead of punishing for doing badly. For example if you haven't died for X% amount of experience you get +Y% exp bonus and on death you lose Z% of the experience bonus. If the exp bonus was capped at 100% then you'd need to double the amount of exp required for each level. Although on second thoughts this experience penalty could still feel like a punishment as you lose the exp bonus, but at least it allows you to mix in difficult content whenever you want without feeling so punished for doing so.

The experience bonus would need to be like .... 10 times the 'normal' xp gain then, and it would not fully fill the role of of soft level cap anymore, which is one thing it's supposed to do ( atm at least).

And I'm pretty sure that the same people who complain all the same.



Many do not want to get punished by their mistake, we all get that.
Well then .... too bad I guess ?
Regarding technical issues / internet related problems well ... play a standalone game I guess then ? As legit as such complains are, they are not directly related to the penalty on death.

It should be scaled. 10% in the 80's and down to 5% in the 90's. 10% is too brutal in the 90 range. I think 5% during your 90-100 grind would be much more acceptable.

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

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DivineChampion wrote:

(...)
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Death XP penalty is a punishment, and it teaches you that your character is not good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs Is this really the best way of teaching a player what that player is doing wrong?

I'll add that, while probably useful during the mod-levelling period, the only effect the penalty has afterwards is determining a player's level cap (basically, at what point the player decides the effort spent trying to level up despite the penalty is not worth it, so he/she would rather drop levelling up altogether, thus not be affected by the penalty anymore). Basically, at that point, it's just there to stroke a minority's ego while immensely frustrating another.
I am of the minority that it frustrates, so I decided to drop the game, but I would love to see it reworked to something both more effective at its roles at all times, and less frustrating at the very high level part of the game.

Fixed the link for you.

And yes, PoE is punishing for many people. Not only is it punishing, but GGG nerf's people's work into the dirt almost every league.

They are losing player retention. Once the pool of new players dries up, this game will go into rapid decline.

It's sad really, but that's the nature of things. Origins, Rise, Peak, Decline, Slow Death into the Abyss.