Please Remove 10% Exp Loss on Death
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Well, TencentGGG could have always comprehended that the death EXP penalty is not the problem in itself, but the way it scales post level 95 along with the EXP gain penalty is the problem as it tries to "ARTIFICIALLY INCREASE" the grind in a non-immersive manner.
They have the means to improve the experience for everyone, but they actually choose not to do so "because reasons"... Let's try a few alternate means to implement the death penalty: 1) Make the penalty apply to the recently run content - have the death EXP penalty amount to the last ran content, in relation with the number of attempts This solution makes the death EXP penalty link directly to the "end game" which might be a map/Alva temple/betrayal safehouse/"Labyrinth"/delve node etc. Add further granularity by allowing UP TO 6 tries - so if you try a map with 1 portal, the 1 death possible = you lost ALL exp gained there, and the remaining one too, 6 deaths possible = you lose no less 1/6th of the exp available on the map, and the further attempts will deal with a reduce map EXP pool This will actually stop progression as the current EXP penalty does, while also allowing players to learn via trial & error, and also address zerging - progression on successive deaths 2) Make the death penalty apply a debuff that slows the gain of the further EXP This solution should be implemented in a way that discourages consecutive deaths to prevent zerging, so an increasing amount should be used... And these 2 are simply some examples that hold merit and actually would improve the experience for everyone... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...
Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... |
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" I doubt this will result in a better experience because if you severely limit portals to the point where remaining portals are actually meaningful (right now 6 portals is more than plenty and in no way a limitation), you might witness even more players not responding to trades because they cant afford to "waste" a portal on trade. I cant tell for sure if this going to happen or how severely its going to impact the overall experience, but I´ll stick to my statement that its probably less enjoyable. I do like the death penalty - that said Im not that stubborn to defend the xp loss. As long as the penalty is meaningful (and no losing a portal isnt meaningful), Im down for a change. But it has to be as painful as the current xp loss, otherwise you might just get rid of it and thats not what I would like to see in this game. Death has to be meaningful because this is whats driving people towards improving to the point they can pull it off deathless - and that is the true meaning of the death penalty to me. It provides value for staying alive. Now at this point you might argue: "Ok, lets turn this positive then. If you survive long enough you´ll get some goodies and people like this approach usually better." Problem is: This doesnt apply to HC at all and it will provide goodies for people who dont need those goodies and if those goodies were actually good/powerful then people would complain the game is unfair because they cant have those goodies. Also, if those goodies would allow them somehow to lvl faster, GGG is likely to increase the xp thresholds to make up for it, which will indirectly punish those who cant get these goodies - and we are back to beating a dead horse... There is no simple solution that would make everybody happy. I have yet to read a suggestion on this topic that doesnt require a ton of work or simply advocates for a total removal - hence I support the penalty as is. Last edited by Orbaal#0435 on Aug 25, 2020, 5:56:30 AM
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" As I said: interesting approach, not necessarily a good one. I think 'supporting' something because you see no alternative despite knowing it's flawed is at least flirting with the notion of resignation, but if that's how you see it and if that helps you enjoy the game, so be it. :) And no, I would never advocate for a positive incentive for staying alive over a negative reinforcement for dying: as you noted, HC would then benefit for no justifiable reason. That proposal wouldn't make it past even a cursory consideration. I'm still back at being baffled as to how GGG could copy so much of D2 but then neglect to implement a balanced death penalty system. Maybe they just decided it wasn't hardcore enough -- but that's what Hardcore mode is for. Either way, it's almost certainly not changing now. Love it or leave it, as they say. I chose to leave it, but I won't pretend that I don't miss many other aspects of the game. It's just that when I weighed it up, certain things mattered more to me than others, and a death penalty that doesn't make me feel like I've wasted my time (or even feel like I'm just plain going backwards) is pretty high on my list of priorities when it comes to games I play and enjoy. The 'enjoy' part is important here, because the main response I see from 10% exp loss apologists is 'it's there to make sure your build is up to snuff'. Fine, but we all know past a certain point into the endgame that generally means 'trade or play a confirmed meta build' for the most part. And I enjoy neither. Account sharing/boosting is a bannable offence. No ifs, ands, or buts. No exceptions. Not even for billionaires.
Post this sentiment publicly and see how long it lasts here. |
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" Its not resignation :) As I said: I like the penalty, I really do. This isnt me being a masochist or a cultist or whatever terms have been thrown around in these topics. I just like the fact, that game has a mechanic to fight back and keep players somewhat on their toes. Especially in SC there is very little holding payers back and I also do think the death penalty serves as balancing tool, so the same game can be played in SC and HC. If there was no meaningful drawback to dying, then glass cannons would rule to the point where SC players would claim the game was to easy and needs to be harder or more challenging which would at some point ruin HC completely. The death penalty does help avoiding this issue to a degree. Is it perfect? No, but its still better than the suggestions made in threads like this. |
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" This is more or less how I feel too. It's all about the indirect values of the death penalty. It gives indirect value to your gear, your build, your knowledge and your choices. 'Most' people can reach a point where they don't need more levels and are 'free' to do whatever they want. But in my mind, it feels wrong to keep progressing/recieving XP when you keep dying over and over again. You're clearly not ready to face the content you are trying to face. The death penalty makes me care. And I want to care. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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" I am a little bothered by the idea that it didn't even cross your mind that portals could simply be decorrelated from trips to the hideout. This is part of why you get so much flak : it often feels like pro-penalty people are on the lookout for any minor flaw in suggested alternative penalties so they can diss them to keep the current one. |
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" I didnt diss him though. I was simply expressing my thoughts and thats it. What you are somewhat proposing is changing the way portals work. You didnt say it that way, but to me it sounds like the player should be able to use a portal (for trades and stuff) without consuming a portal. How would the game know this? Would like to have a popup each time you are using a portal where you get to chose what you want to do and that results in a consumed or not consumed portal? This is exactly what I meant, when I said I have yet to read a suggestion that doesnt need a lot of work and time. Time Id like to see the devs spending on more important issues. |
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You mean, you don't see how the game could simply provide a single portal per player (accessible only to that player) in the party when the map's put into the device, then only remove the portal on character death?
And who are you to decide how much work and time a specific suggestion takes? Basically, any change takes some time to implement, so you'll only have to say it's too much work to say it's not a good enough solution. Last edited by Angry_Casual#1628 on Aug 25, 2020, 8:01:46 AM
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It really doesn't matter what form the death penalty takes, or if there is none, and levelling to 100 is just a time based grind, no single solution will please everyone, it would just be a different set of players posting about how unfair it is (and it does feel bad, because its supposed to), or how there needs to be a greater penalty because its too easy.
the xp loss is the system we have, anything else would be a resource intensive change for no benefit (from GGGs perspective, and the majority of the playerbase), so if you are finding you die too often, do easier content or plan a build that works for a level you can achieve so the deaths are of less impact. It really annoyed me for a long time too, until I did just that. Now I use the level I can achieve as the measure of my build progression. |
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GGG must implement the China automated trade to global so you don't waste a portal to go and trade.
Portals are the limiting feature here. If you can't finish a map or kill an end game boss in 6 tries (wich are too much imho) you clearly have a problem with your build or you are trying to bite more than you can chew. I can't simply accept the "you can zerg to end game" argument because you just can't, you are limited to portals. You can't for example just add DPS and zerg from act 10 into yellow maps because you will get one shoted once you enter the map. The worst part here is that the exp loss is the worst approach to a death penalty. Simply because you can't recover at least part of it, wich leads to the sensation you wasted your life time. Just literaly every other game I played where you lose exp on death there's a way to recover at least part of it: you pay to a NPC, get your former corpse, pray at an altar, etc. And yes I played other games where you don't lose exp. The death penalties were also harsh. For example if you die, the boss resets. Every time. Other example: you die you lose the dungeon, and you can enter it only once every week, or month, so you need to wait. Options are limitless, GGG doesn't need to stick with the worst. "There's no thing like random one-shots in this game. You only die because you take 353,456,237 hits in 0.2 seconds."
"The best items in the game should not be crafted, they should be TRADED." - Cent, GGG |
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