Please Remove 10% Exp Loss on Death

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Raxsyn wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Yeah let's just remove all the prestige stuff from the game and let the veterans die out because F those! Let's just comfort new players who have no understanding of the game whatsoever and let them ramble on the forum.

To clarify: the sarcasm is validated by all the ignorance in this thread. Unbelievable for any vet player to read this.

It is only ignorant because it is different then what you are thinking. Ignorance begets ignorance.

What prestige? Unless I run into in game or go look up your profile (which I would never do), then I have no idea what you have done. You are nothing more then a digital ghost in the sea of players playing the game. The only prestige is in your head and nothing more. If it makes you feel good, then more power to you, but make no mistake about it, it is only you who knows it.

Not all players care about prestige and just want to play the game and not be forced into the min/max game style GGG seems to foster based on the veterans feedback. Maybe the veterans are the ones getting in the way of the game instead of GGG considering new ways to play their own game and get it to grow.

I have not said anything about the rest of of their game or design because I think they have done an awesome job. Exp loss on death is the ONLY complaint that I have because it is an out-dated-mechanic that does nothing more than frustrates players, waste their time and serves only GGG in slowing the player down.

No one to date has been able to justify why the exp loss on death fosters prestige? At the end of the day your experience/skill/builds and knowledge of the game will always mean you will get to 100 first, clear maps faster and excel at all content above others. That has absolutely nothing to do with the exp loss on death.

If you are referring to the possibility that I run into you in town and you are 100th level and I am not? Well then good for you, but at the end of the day I will not care and have forgotten who you are as soon as I leave the screen.

You are forgotten as soon as you are seen and that is just reality because I am playing the game for my enjoyment and definitely not for yours.

Bravo, very good post. I agree 101 percent of this opinion. The game isnt e-p**n, some players thinks that they accomplished so much in their life when reaching lvl 100 in the game where exist 10 prc exp penalty. For me its nothing, those poor guys just live behind screen ant thinks i make so much effort instead of just enjoying the game.

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veixc wrote:

For me its nothing, those poor guys just live behind screen ant thinks i make so much effort instead of just enjoying the game.

Why should those "poor guys" care about your opinion ?

You don't have to be condescending by the way, being condescending about other players of a video game in an internet forum likely indicates a problem somewhere imo.

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Raxsyn wrote:

That is poor design and is proof every league, the majority of the player base gravitates to the min/max builds that are going to get them through to 100 to max out their character.

Couldnt be further from the truth - sry man.
Just a very tiny tiny minority ever tries to get to lvl100 and even less achieve it.
This is 100% intended. GGG has been on a crusade to prevent players from reaching lvl100 from day 1 and justified plenty nerfs to xp ratios and such because they simply dont want players to reach lvl100 easily.
Lvl100 is meant to be an achievement for extremely dedicated players. Its never meant to be a reasonable goal for regular players or noobs like you.
And this is also intended. GGG themselves said so numerous times.

Btw: Im not trying to insult you by calling you a noob.
Its simply what you are. You havent seen endgame yet, you havent done anything remotely difficult in this game, you have been around for 1 year and most likely have played less than 1000 hours - which means you are a noob.
Im not kidding at all, it does take about 1k hours to learn the basics of this game. And this is the reason why you are catching flak right now.
Trying to lecture way more experienced players while being a noob never goes down well. Just saying.

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Raxsyn wrote:

GGG could have more game play modes, like one with "no exp loss on death" and one "with exp loss on death".

Basically you are advocating a noob league without consequences whatsoever. If thats what you like, fine. More power to you.
But in that case PoE isnt the game for you. It is specifically marketed as a "hardcore aRPG" - not as noob or beginner friendly.
GGG follows a gamedesign philosophy back from the 90ies. You said you were a gamer veteran with 45 years experience. Great - so you remember how games used to be back then.
Games didnt use to hold your hand or just hand to you whatever you needed. Games were brutal back then and so is PoE.


There is a reason why this games motto is:
Adapt or die.

Cheers

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Raxsyn wrote:

It is only ignorant because it is different then what you are thinking. Ignorance begets ignorance.

I call you ignorant, because you base your opinion on the level of a casual player in a hardcore game. That in itself kills all your arguments.

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Raxsyn wrote:

What prestige? Unless I run into in game or go look up your profile (which I would never do), then I have no idea what you have done. You are nothing more then a digital ghost in the sea of players playing the game. The only prestige is in your head and nothing more. If it makes you feel good, then more power to you, but make no mistake about it, it is only you who knows it.

You forget this isn't a single-player game. There's achievements and challenges and leaderboards, some of which I have been on in the past. If there's nothing to accomplish in a game, then is it worth playing? The more difficult the journey, the sweeter the arrival.

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Raxsyn wrote:

Not all players care about prestige and just want to play the game and not be forced into the min/max game style GGG seems to foster based on the veterans feedback. Maybe the veterans are the ones getting in the way of the game instead of GGG considering new ways to play their own game and get it to grow.

Yes, you are allowed to be casual. Path of Exile has always been a game not suited for casuals. You're welcome here, but don't let the door hit your ass when you are shown your way out because you try to piggyback to what you deem absolute.

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Raxsyn wrote:

I have not said anything about the rest of of their game or design because I think they have done an awesome job. Exp loss on death is the ONLY complaint that I have because it is an out-dated-mechanic that does nothing more than frustrates players, waste their time and serves only GGG in slowing the player down.

They have made a lot of bad design choices, many of which I could list and explain here. You wouldn't care and it would be heavily off-topic. The point is: XP loss isn't one of them and I have explained why previously. Beg to differ, but you're casting a minority vote.

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Raxsyn wrote:

No one to date has been able to justify why the exp loss on death fosters prestige? At the end of the day your experience/skill/builds and knowledge of the game will always mean you will get to 100 first, clear maps faster and excel at all content above others. That has absolutely nothing to do with the exp loss on death.

Once again you prove you don't understand game mechanics much.

If you remove XP penalties or reduce them significantly, there's nothing that'll hold you back from reaching 100. It'd only be a sign of how much you've been playing that specific character and there's no achievement, no milestone that's been made. You know, GGG has actually raised the XP cap to reach 100 by a great margin in the past. People were reaching it too fast. You're trying to take away that sense of achievement from a group of players for making people who shouldn't be able to reach those levels at all.

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Raxsyn wrote:

If you are referring to the possibility that I run into you in town and you are 100th level and I am not? Well then good for you, but at the end of the day I will not care and have forgotten who you are as soon as I leave the screen.

I'm not. It's not likely we'll ever run into each other. I play SSF-only, because trade is way too easy.

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Raxsyn wrote:

You are forgotten as soon as you are seen and that is just reality because I am playing the game for my enjoyment and definitely not for yours.

Dito.

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veixc wrote:

Bravo, very good post. I agree 101 percent of this opinion. The game isnt e-p**n, some players thinks that they accomplished so much in their life when reaching lvl 100 in the game where exist 10 prc exp penalty. For me its nothing, those poor guys just live behind screen ant thinks i make so much effort instead of just enjoying the game.

I'll just ignore the condescending part and get to the core of your post. I'll not insult or condescend you for being a casual-head, but I expect the same reason and respect that I offer you. XP loss is a significant part of the gameplay-design and absolutely out of the question unless you have some serious proposition that'd make sense and offer players the same sense of progression that making the last 10 levels as difficult to reach as they are.

As things stand, all characters and builds can reach level 90 very easily if you have some basic understanding of the game. The game is designed around level 90. Most builds work their best around this time. Everything after level 90 is highly optional. You fill out some extra life nodes maybe or access another jewel socket. Nothing of high importance, just min-maxing (which, btw, is a big part of building your character). If you are not min-maxing your character, you shouldn't hope to get past that stage. And that's alright. At level 90 you can clear maps just fine, use all equipment (highest level equipment is level 80, which is like SO easy to reach) and you aren't left out of any content the game provides. If death doesn't mean something, what does life?

you dont need to be 100 lol

i usually stop at 94~95 then forget about the exp.

i finally made it to 100 for the first time but after that, same thing.. either make a new character or kill things i can't kill on my new character.

well death sucks but it makes you focus on defense more during leveling.
you can cut your damage to boost your defense, dont use dps flasks, dont over kill etc.
more importantly , run safe maps over and over. you still make a lot of currency , and good chance of getting decent loot becaus u farm so much.

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

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Dudebag wrote:

(...)
i usually stop at 94~95 then forget about the exp.
(...)
well death sucks but it makes you focus on defense more during leveling.
(...)
more importantly , run safe maps over and over.
(...)

That's exactly my point:
1) Once you stop caring about the level, there is no penalty anymore, which meens it fails at all its roles from that point on.
2) The penalty is probably fine in the intermediate levels. (I'd even bet in the 1-70 range it could be increased with almost no one having any issue with that.)
3) The penalty incentivizes playing in ways that suck the fun out of the game.

You're absolutely right when you say that the death penalty isn't particularly good at forcing people to improve their builds. If the penalty existed for that reason alone you'd be right and it should be replaced with something better.
But ultimately the OP is right about one thing. Part of the reason for the death penalty, maybe even the main reason for it, is that GGG want's to slow us down, in fact they want to stop us completely so we can't reach 100. They don't want everyone to reach level 100. It's supposed to be a nolife nerd only achievement.

People can hate this all they want, just as they hate the lack of an auction house but it's unlikely that GGG will ever change their stance on this.

I am quoting a guy from Reddit who had this conversation with Chris Wilson before. Read carefully, that's GGG's stance on things.

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He said:

"I still remember quite well you Chris saying that "playing a game is about having fun and you see no reason to punish people for playing". Your game has become an excercise in frustration. I don't want to play "correctly" nor I want to play carefully. I play the way I want, the way I'm having fun. Death penalty is and should be present only in hardcore leagues, that means if you die, you die for good. For people that want to have an extra reason to struggle. People that want to have it easy, have no option to do so. Your game has either hardcore or insane levels of difficulty. For regular players that do not care about competition but only killing a few monsters now and then, death penalty reduction only moves the moment when the frustration sets in. That person will still quit your game, because he's still being punished for playing. If he wanted to be punished for playing in the first place, he would have chosen hardcore league."

Chris responded:

"Over the last week, for each mail like this, I've received five mails from people that are angry that we reduced the penalty. It's a pretty tough situation, but when faced with a split community, we have to keep our design true to the original vision. Path of Exile has always had a death penalty and while 15% was too high, we're very happy with how well 10% works in testing. I'm keen to hear your feedback after trying it out."

After trying it out, I wrote:

"15% or 10% is still getting punished for playing. I can't understand Chris why do you have 4 hardcore leagues, 1 semihardcore, and none softcore. Why does the hardcore crowd cannot play all their hardcore leagues and leave softcore people be? I cannot understand that part. Also, how difficult is to introduce ONE softcore league where people don't get punished at all? How does that influence your precious elitist hardcore crowd?

Why is it tough situation really? Hardcore people play hardcore, softcore play regular. One does not influence the other. Or is regular ment to be semihardcore as well for some unknown reason? Staying true to the original vision sounds like a bunch of crap. Sorry Chris for saying it straight, but that's how it is. You've changed your vision many times thanks to the hardcore crowd whining. I'm not hardcore nor I care to be. Either make the game fun for me and people like me, or you can count us out."

Chris responded:

"The game has always had a death penalty since before the date it was announced. It's a system that was present in Diablo 2 and honestly, we've tried playing without it and don't find the game enjoyable. While an experience penalty may not be the best system (there are others in testing), there has to be something so that player death isn't trivialised."

Over the years, people have kept complaining about the Death Penalty. But always there were more people in favour of it than against.

Be happy it's not 15% like it used to.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Over the years, people have kept complaining about the Death Penalty. But always there were more people in favour of it than against.

Be happy it's not 15% like it used to.

I dont care how much is it 10 or 15, i just dont play the game until it exists in the game. Havent payed single cent over the year, i went back to WOW and pay the 12 euros in month for them.

Remove it from game and i will give this money for GGG.

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veixc wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Over the years, people have kept complaining about the Death Penalty. But always there were more people in favour of it than against.

Be happy it's not 15% like it used to.

I dont care how much is it 10 or 15, i just dont play the game until it exists in the game. Havent payed single cent over the year, i went back to WOW and pay the 12 euros in month for them.

Remove it from game and i will give this money for GGG.

Fact of the matter is: GGG has tried other systems themselves and there hasn't been a single one they deemed better than the lost XP.

On another note: I'm happy you're so content with World of Warcraft. You still stick around the PoE forum despite not playing the game at the moment, which shows how engaged you are with it. I'm sure GGG loves how passionate people are about their creation. :)

EDIT: I think what didn't get through in that statement by Chris is that they are aware of this conversation, it's been held for many years already. But they're adamant about not changing it, so all arguments here are in vain. Sorry to break that to you, but things are how they are