Time Capsule from PoE Closed Beta -- a classic PoE vs D3 thread circa 2012

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rpgfiend wrote:

I'm not here to placate you.

No, you're here to discuss something which I initiated and about which I am passionate. No one who has posted here should do anything else. I hate to put it in plain terms, but that's the long and the short of it. I don't own this thread, but I am still here making sure it stays relatively on course and, in a way, respects the efforts of not only my first post but all the wonderful posts since, by all sorts of people.

This is my last reply to you unless your next post is about the topic at hand. Take care.

EDIT: In the future, if you want to promote healthy discussion that doesn't seem inflammatory, try to avoid the word 'whore' when describing the game at hand. Trust me. It is not a nice word in any situation.

We were talking about Diablo's music. You were the one that re-integrated yourself into this conversation and began throwing about personal insults once again and it would be disappointing to have this mostly cordial and civil discussion devolve into the typical Battle.net affair of insults and seven hundred red herrings within twenty pages.

What you should do is think before you post something if it will add to the discussion or if it will be interpreted as hostile/offensive and garner negative reaction. Why have many people that side with D3 not been made a target? They express their views without a chip on their shoulder. Contributing negativity will only attract negative replies.

And yes, I realize I just replied again. Hopefully this helps you overall in the long run though.

Oh, as if ONE person changing my words to suit their ill-informed agenda in one week wasn't enough!

Good lord.

Moving on.

My weapon is nearing completion! I've seen some concept art, pretty much finalised the stats.

I suppose if we want to relate that to PoE vs D3, we could say there's virtually no way anyone could, by any means, get to work with the GGG folk so closely. Did I 'pay' for it? Sure, even if I'm getting all that payment back as much-needed cash shop credit. I wonder how many people would have paid the same amount to get to design a unique in D3. I reckon a few.

Extrapolating from that, the fact that the community and team of Path of Exile is still small enough to remain personable is another reason I choose Path of Exile over Diablo 3. My recent...issues with the D3 forum made very clear how difficult it is to speak to someone from Blizzard personally *if* you're not able to post on their forum. I just didn't feel like I could contact anyone there. It felt...impenetrable. To Blizzard, I am but another gamer with an empty opinion and a hundred bucks hopefully set aside for their product.

No. Thank. You.

I would like to believe that this forum, these mods, and path of exile in general is a bit more inviting to newcomers than that. And this, of course, is also due to the scale. Do I blame Blizzard? Heck no. When you get big, you just can't remain 'small'. But there's nothing wrong with me choosing this over that if I acknowledge that the scale is part of what attracted me.

Anyway, the weapon's coming along nicely and none of you will like it. I'm terribly excited.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Oh, as if ONE person changing my words to suit their ill-informed agenda in one week wasn't enough!

Good lord.

Moving on.

My weapon is nearing completion! I've seen some concept art, pretty much finalised the stats.

I suppose if we want to relate that to PoE vs D3, we could say there's virtually no way anyone could, by any means, get to work with the GGG folk so closely. Did I 'pay' for it? Sure, even if I'm getting all that payment back as much-needed cash shop credit. I wonder how many people would have paid the same amount to get to design a unique in D3. I reckon a few.

Yeah, but considering their sheer size and number of devoted fans, I bet too many people would be willing to pay for it.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Extrapolating from that, the fact that the community and team of Path of Exile is still small enough to remain personable is another reason I choose Path of Exile over Diablo 3. My recent...issues with the D3 forum made very clear how difficult it is to speak to someone from Blizzard personally *if* you're not able to post on their forum. I just didn't feel like I could contact anyone there. It felt...impenetrable. To Blizzard, I am but another gamer with an empty opinion and a hundred bucks hopefully set aside for their product.

No. Thank. You.

Yeah and owning their classic games doesn't help. you basically need a character created in WoW or SC to be able to post on their boards. AN account isn't good enough!!

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

I would like to believe that this forum, these mods, and path of exile in general is a bit more inviting to newcomers than that. And this, of course, is also due to the scale. Do I blame Blizzard? Heck no. When you get big, you just can't remain 'small'. But there's nothing wrong with me choosing this over that if I acknowledge that the scale is part of what attracted me.

Anyway, the weapon's coming along nicely and none of you will like it. I'm terribly excited.

Small games companies games tend to be more inviting just due to the fact that they can listen more closely. Smallness is a nice thing. This is hard for a large company to do though, especially with a team of maybe 300 people or so? (that number is a guess by the way).

As for you weapon, does it have negative stats on it? The only thing I hate is when you have an unrepairable item in a game with durability (ethereal items in D2.... Which no matter what they were I always sold them as being junk).

Hey Faerie!

It's got two big negative factors, but only one is a negative stat. It did have a speed reduction on it but I got rid of that.

I'm aiming for it to be useful from roughly level 7-8 through to the 20s. Believe me, that wasn't easy. It's a spectacular twink weapon, if you're willing to play by its rules.

Man, the fact that you need a current character to post on their forum is ridiculous. Did they really think it would reduce the trolls? I certainly see no such reduction, and I've only had a glance or two. Very restrictive indeed. Certainly not inviting.

But I do understand. They're huge, the beta's huge, and that sort of thing is really hard to manage and contain.

Goodness knows how many community managers they have by now.

We hardly see ours, but I think that's more indicative of a good thing (we take care of ourselves and the devs respond directly to queries) than bad. :)

lol, GGG just moved to "Off Topic" in a lightning speed a thread that informed players about D3 Open Beta Weekend! nice move! lol

Alright, I guess its time for my wall of text. I won't even bother posting this over at the D3 forums, because I know it will be flamed into oblivion, no matter how logical and polite I attempt to be.

I'm not going to buy Diablo 3, and that's the nicest way I can say that.

Skills/Stats: I've seen a lot of people say that the amount of customization available in D3 is far superior to the previous titles. Alright, I won't argue with that. What I do not care for, is the fact that all meaningful decision making has been removed from the building of your character. In fact, I don't see it as building your character anymore. A character build is something you work on throughout the time you put into said character. Stats, skills, and even the skill runes, are now unlocked in an oppressively linear fashion. I feel like I'm unlocking new loadouts in a casual action game, which is actually what I now view Diablo 3 to be. And many people seem to have this preconceived notion that the only alternative to the current system are the broken mechanics found in D2. There could have been other solutions, I assure you. This system also pretty much kills replay value. Even those people that will grind in Inferno difficulty for a while, will rush out to buy any expansion released by Blizzard, because, let's face it, its not like they can build another character of the same class, and have different results. Its that money making machine.

RMAH: In my mind, wholly unethical and another way for Blizzard to turn one of their titles into a profit-milking addiction machine. The prospect of making money off of selling in-game items will draw far too many players into the game world for far too many hours. And then, those that do not wish to bother finding good gear (which is the only real remaining RPG element), can use their credit card to buy the gear they need. Oh, and let's not forget Blizzard's negative stance on selling items when they didn't have control over the market.

No PVP At Launch:This announcement didn't bother me in the slightest, since I am not a PVP oriented player. I'm just wondering how many other companies could get away with charging full price for a game that has been in development for about a decade, and is shipped without a major feature due to "time constraints."

Blizzard's Attitude: Even when the D3 discussion was taking place in the old b.net forums, it was a warzone in there. Anyone that questioned Blizzard's decisions was immediately flamed by rabid forum members, and in a few cases, Bashiok (SP) was even part of the problem. The Blizzard Irvine team seems to have this sense of entitlement, despite this being their first Diablo title. Every public announcement made me feel like I was being patted on the head in a condescending way, while being told "Its OK, we created WOW." Moreover, why is it that anyone that doesn't have a WOW account or a copy of Starcraft 2 can't post on the forums? Well, if you only own classic Blizzard games, it means you aren't a part of the money making machine that Blizzard has become.

The D3 Fanbase: I will be entering my 20th year of gaming this year. What the hell happened? We used to be excited to play games with one another. Games that were released by small development teams that worked atrocious hours in tiny apartment buildings. Now, we take the entire gameplay experience for granted. Many people scoff at the smaller studios like GGG, Crate, and Runic. And why? Because they don't have the money to throw into a decade-long development cycle that ends with a half-baked casual action game? I see comments like "POE looks good, if it were ten years ago." And other gems like "Torchlight 2 is clearly trying to imitate Diablo 3, and won't come close." Is this what we've come to? We're such a bunch of snot-nosed brats that only the popular games are received with any positive feelings? Games that are created by developers that hold near-limitless funding, and are backed by one of the biggest (and greediest, in my opinion) publishers in the world? Why is it that the small developers with extremely limited funding, who pour their blood, sweat, and tears into their projects, are disrespected? Some of you know that I'm trying to enter this field myself. Seeing these self-entitled children almost makes me want to go into another career.

I laugh when I see people crapping all over Torchlight 2 while building D3 up, as they claim what a Diablo fan they are. You know, since none of the team that made the first two Diablo titles are at Blizzard now, and several of them (including the co-founders of Blizzard North) are responsible for the Torchlight franchise. Why can't these people show a little respect for those that got the whole freaking ball rolling? Especially since those same people are working on a game that will be functionally similar to a Diablo title, and will include things like mod support, will not require a constant internet connection, will contain a large amount of content, and will be sold for the meagre price of $20.

Path of Exile, to me, embodies the natural progression that this genre should have taken. Things like refillable health/mana flasks do not affect the bottom line ARPG experience of kill, loot, level up. Things like that improve the game without over-simplifying it. There is a difference between over-simplification and accessibility. Accessibility refers to things like only having to hit one button to open your inventory, and being able to quickly and easily read item data.

I don't want to ramble on for too much longer, but I believe I have made my point. Thanks for bearing with me, as I haven't bothered to write something like this until now.