Feedback and Suggestions - Since GGG forced lab down our throats, how about some protection from lab carries that quit or die? - Forum

" nooooodles wrote: Really the core issue is you want the skill points on a silver platter when the game design is rooted in skill based progression. Kind of reminds me of the Overwatch players who were crying because they couldn't hit plat. Not everyone gets a trophy just for participating, and dumbing the game down for the wannabe players would just kill the longevity and replayability. The point of Path of Exile is to get a little better each time, and to climb that mountain. Some people get a little sensitive about the game being so hard, which is an entitlement problem we see a lot. PoE is the only game on the market with a skill based progression system, and is many people's favorite feature. That's a cool thing. You get stuck, you do better next time until you finally can play at a high enough level to get through in an evasion build. Thicken up that skin dudezilla, it's a long road to the top. nooooodles, this post seems totally irrelevant to this thread. Who has asked for any of the stuff you claim here? Like dumbing down the game WHO? You keep saying this stuff like it is radical or someone is disagreeing with you? Who is this directed at? Who do you think needs to be convinced of this? __________________________________________ " Prizy wrote: Does anyone have an example of a build that has a difficult time with lab or can't do lab? I'm curious as to what these builds are. I have yet to see one that can't do it, although i do hear about a lot of players that just don't want to do it or don't enjoy it. I agree with you. I really don't think there is such a build that can't do labyrinth. This is why it is so absolutely ridiculous for people (not you but others) to claim that labyrinth weeds out glass cannons. ____________________________________________ " Pobatti wrote: " Fruz wrote: " Miská wrote: Some people really don't get it. Most people get carries not because they can't do it, but because lab is absolutely shit tier content. Good and intelligent players don't bother with carries because they don't like it, they do it quickly and get done with it themselves if they don't like it. Players who suck at the lab and don't like it might pay carries though. Exactly this. If the content isn't a problem difficulty-wise, why not just spend ten minutes getting it done? Paying someone to carry you won't save much or any time since you still have to go through the labyrinth. All the "carrier" does is kill the enemies and bosses - ie. remove the more interesting aspects of the labyrinth, and reduce the entire experience to a boring walk. If you don't like the labyrinth because it's boring, why would you pay someone to make it even more boring? None of it makes sense. There are two reasons why people use "carriers": 1) The "carriers" are stronger in combat, or controlled by a more experienced player who's more able to deal with the various obstacles, traps and bosses. 2) The buyer is a hardcore character, and doesn't want to lose hardcore status, so employs another player to act as a meat-shield to do all the work. If the "carrier" happens to die, he would lose his hardcore status, but the buyer wouldn't and could quickly quit/escape if that happened. So if we take on face value the claim that the buyer's strength and capabilities aren't the problem, the only explanation that jumps out is that he/she is probably the kind of Hardcore League player who is ever-prepared to use a logout macro to preserve his/her Hardcore status - ie. just a symptom of the reluctance to take any form of risk demonstrated by a good portion of the Hardcore community. Which begs the question, why even choose to be in Hardcore League if you're just going to use a variety of tricks and loopholes to remove the possibility of death entirely? Hardcore is supposed to be a measure of skill, not of the ability to quit the game on-time, or buy assistance for risky tasks. People in this very thread have given other reasons to use carries. Not sure why you don't believe them that they have used carries? Perhaps you just didn't read those posts? Also your assertion that it takes only 10 minutes to run through labyrinth does not survive the simple reality check of looking at the lab ladder. Perhaps you're just guessing at the time to run eternal lab? But, the median time on the ladder is usually longer than 10 minutes. The median time would be a relatively fast run because most of the faster times on the ladder are lab runners farming lab that have likely made multiple runs with only the fastest run time being saved. Here we're not talking about lab runners we're talking about people that don't practice lab and likely run only when required and are only after the ascendancy points. These times would typically be on the longer side of the median time on the ladder. _________________________________ " Legatus1982 wrote: The lab carry business is going just as strong as it has ever been. Every time I'm in 820 I see lab carry posts, even after only a minute, as well as those looking for a carry. I don't see how this can be difficult for you to understand. ... He's a smart guy very familiar with PoE. Therefore, I'm sure he understands. I think he would just rather insult and antagonize you. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!	Posted by Turtledove#4014 on Jan 3, 2019, 8:38:54 PM Quote this Post
" Legatus1982 wrote: Fruz, I'm going to make this very clear for you because I'm getting tired of the same crap over and over with you. If you report me for a nothing burger one more time, I will respond by going back through every single post you have ever made on every thread you post in, find every bit of even slightly antagonistic content and report it as part of my morning routine and eventually your account will be suspended. LOOOOL I'm I'm I'm .... I'M SO SCARED ! /s I will report any message that I deem antagonizing, period. If you don't want to get reported, you are free to behave. " Legatus1982 wrote: You can either choose to be a mature adult, take it the way you dish it out like a mature person would and hold yourself to the same standards you hold others to I don't think that you really have standards regarding this, any "decent" (very subjective, I know) adult would understand what it means to create a thread calling for censorship imho. In case you noticed, you are the one who posted some obnoxious stuff in the previous page. And yet you dare talk about maturity ? ... like wtf It's not our place to discuss moderation anyway, the only thing that matters is that if you don't want to get moderated, respect the terms of use, period. " Legatus1982 wrote: As to the topic, it doesn't matter whether anyone CAN do lab or not, the fact is lagging on a trap will kill some builds and not affect others and there is no reason for an hc player using a lab unfriendly build to choose to risk lab over a carry. What ? Because .. paying a carry saves you from going through ... traps ? WHAT, again ? The quantity of trap/patterns that can be made slightly easier is very low, you still have to go through traps anyway. " Miská wrote: " Fruz wrote: " Miská wrote: I get carries all the time on chars that would kill Izaro in 1 sec. So ... you just run the content the same way, but instead of killing the boss in one sec, let somebody do it + pay couple of chaos + spend time looking for the other player for .... what reason exactly ? we're reaching a high level on the wtf scale here. I just can't be bothered to deal with the times when Izaro feels like 1 shotting me randomly. Or thinking about how to deal with the mechanics every day. Killing him does nothing, sometimes it takes up to 20 seconds more for him to finish his billion animations. Just can't be bothered. Then again you already knew this but had to be pendantic and antagonistic on purpose. So ... you don't kill him in one second on that char, at all. Thank you for showing everyone that you have no clue, what you are talking about, and are proving my ( and not only ) point that only player being bad at the lab ( at least the lab ) resort to carries. " VolcanoElixir wrote: " Prizy wrote: Does anyone have an example of a build that has a difficult time with lab or can't do lab? I'm curious as to what these builds are. I have yet to see one that can't do it, although i do hear about a lot of players that just don't want to do it or don't enjoy it. Well, I never tried doing lab with this build but one time I wanted to buy my way through Merciless because I was sitting on unused skill points waiting to jump the skill tree as a Scion. But it was Merciless lab and if the lab carry couldn't do that, that player would have had way more problems than I did. That is actually a good example that I did not think about. With the recent powercreep, merc lab should be doable even with many unallocated skill points I think but it does make sense to seek help to run it in such a case indeed. One of the few things in the game that promotes group play I guess. That makes one single specific case so far. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jan 3, 2019, 9:37:56 PM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jan 3, 2019, 8:52:49 PM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: I will report any message that I deem antagonizing, period. If you don't want to get reported, you are free to behave. I don't think that you really have standards regarding this, any "decent" (very subjective, I know) adult would understand what it means to create a thread calling for censorship imho. In case you noticed, you are the one who posted some obnoxious stuff in the previous page. And yet you dare talk about maturity ? ... like wtf It's not our place to discuss moderation anyway, the only thing that matters is that if you don't want to get moderated, respect the terms of use, period. So in your mind, "Your elitist attitude is neither wanted nor deserved" is antagonistic, immature and obnoxious, but " Fruz wrote: Statement pulled out of you arse, AGAIN. So you suck at the lab => it has to mean that most other people suck there too, you can't be that bad, right ? You are, get real. What the hell did I just read, seriously .... like wtf /facepalm somehow in your mind this is totally acceptable. It's clearly visible that you are more antagonistic and obnoxious than anyone on this thread. You don't get to have it both ways, either grow up and act like a mature adult, or play childish moderator wars games and get your account banned. I prefer not to go to moderators every time someone attacks me personally, but I'll gladly send the banhammer your way at every opportunity if you choose to go that route. You seriously need to grow up. " Fruz wrote: What ? Because .. paying a carry saves you from going through ... traps ? WHAT, again ? The quantity of trap/patterns that can be made slightly easier is very low, you still have to go through traps anyway. It's very simple but I'll explain it more clearly: 1. some builds are better at lab than others, fact not opinion 2. in hc, it is optimal to take advantage of every chance you can to minimize the risk of death 3. therefor it is objectively better for a suboptimal lab build to pay for a lab carry if you are not already using a lab build Yes, it is theoretically POSSIBLE for literally any build to do lab. It is THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE to do lab on a character that has not allocated any skill points and isn't wearing any gear. That doesn't mean it is an intelligent decision to do so, least of all on a suboptimal hc build. This is not at all taking into account the fact that the player may not WANT to do that content, or their skill levels at all, in the first place. Which is part of the reason it's so hilarious watching you post about how everyone who doesn't want to lab must be terrible at POE. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Jan 3, 2019, 10:41:33 PM	Posted by Legatus1982#1658 on Jan 3, 2019, 10:39:45 PM Quote this Post
lol! "Your elitist attitude is neither wanted nor deserved" although being arguably antagonistic, this was not the problem last page, obviously ... Otherwise you would not be writing is again, you know exactly what you wrote in the first place. You being bad at running the labyrinth isn't antagonizing, it's a simple fact. Me pointing out that you are pulling random numbers or making up stats out of thin air is also not antagonistic, but again : a fact. About the rest ... so you want to play the "grow up" card, and the "I'm going to report you ! duh !' attitude, yet you can't be bothered to respect the ToS yourself lol. What a joke seriously. If you want to keep discussing moderation, feel free to pm a moderator. " Legatus1982 wrote: It's very simple but I'll explain it more clearly: 1. some builds are better at lab than others, fact not opinion 2. in hc, it is optimal to take advantage of every chance you can to minimize the risk of death 3. therefor it is objectively better for a suboptimal lab build to pay for a lab carry if you are not already using a lab build The only risk that you are bypassing is Izaro, because you have to go through traps anyway. Making your first 'point' ... well, moot. But I guess you are one of those who pay for a Kitava carry hahaha. Paying for a carry is never an intelligent decision ( apart from that one example that was given last page, which is very specific, or if you are getting PL'ed all the way, which is an entirely different thing too ), period. And no amount of ranting and trying to convince yourself otherwise will change this. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jan 3, 2019, 11:38:02 PM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jan 3, 2019, 11:34:56 PM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: " Miská wrote: I just can't be bothered to deal with the times when Izaro feels like 1 shotting me randomly. Or thinking about how to deal with the mechanics every day. Killing him does nothing, sometimes it takes up to 20 seconds more for him to finish his billion animations. Just can't be bothered. Then again you already knew this but had to be pendantic and antagonistic on purpose. So ... you don't kill him in one second on that char, at all. Thank you for showing everyone that you have no clue, what you are talking about, and are proving my ( and not only ) point that only player being bad at the lab ( at least the lab ) resort to carries. You don't even seem to understand how Izaro works. In any way I'm not gonna discuss this any further with someone like yourself. If you want to believe what you believe, feel free to. I don't really care honestly. Doesn't take away the fact that lab is universally considered shit content.	Posted by Miská#0911 on Jan 3, 2019, 11:47:18 PM Quote this Post
" Miská wrote: You don't even seem to understand how Izaro works. In any way I'm not gonna discuss this any further with someone like yourself. If you want to believe what you believe, feel free to. I don't really care honestly. Doesn't take away the fact that lab is universally considered shit content. Yet I don't need a carry, with any kind of character. I mean, given that you instantly kill it, the only remaining thing to do is to side step his first ability and then instantly blow him up. Do you mean that you can't even do that much ? it's a bit incredible, although not impossible I guess lol. If you had any actual experience with instantly blowing him up, you would know all of that, you would know that there is no mechanic to deal with besides side stepping the first attack he does. You clearly don't. Which means that this quote : " Miská wrote: I get carries all the time on chars that would kill Izaro in 1 sec. is nothing but a lie. Why resort to lying then ? -> the lack of any actual argument. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jan 3, 2019, 11:56:13 PM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jan 3, 2019, 11:52:23 PM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: " Miská wrote: You don't even seem to understand how Izaro works. In any way I'm not gonna discuss this any further with someone like yourself. If you want to believe what you believe, feel free to. I don't really care honestly. Doesn't take away the fact that lab is universally considered shit content. Yet I don't need a carry, with any kind of character. I mean, given that you instantly kill it, the only remaining thing to do is to side step his first ability and then instantly blow him up. Do you mean that you can't even do that much ? it's a bit incredible, although not impossible I guess lol. If you had any actual experience with instantly blowing him up, you would know all of that, you would know that there is no mechanic to deal with besides side stepping the first attack he does. You clearly don't. Which means that this quote : " Miská wrote: I get carries all the time on chars that would kill Izaro in 1 sec. is nothing but a lie. Why resort to lying then ? -> the lack of any actual argument. You just keep convincing yourself that it's can't. But it actually is don't want to. I don't want to do Izaro, I don't want to listen to him, I don't care about him at all. Again, I get carries because it's shit tier content. We gonna keep going in circles because you make up arguments with yourself? Keep arguing with someones opinion.	Posted by Miská#0911 on Jan 4, 2019, 12:18:45 AM Quote this Post
The thing here, is that you want to convince people ( and likely yourself ) that your characters are super strong and that there is no strength problem regarding your character + the lab at all. I'm just saying that if there wasn't, you would not need a carry, even if you hate the lab. This is very simple. And I ( and others ) have shown/explained why. Now you can keep trying to convince people all you want, the facts that were put forward do remain : - The thing that carries allow you is to not need to fight Izaro. - If your character is strong enough, you do not need a carry because you can kill Izaro on your own ( you could be a 'fake' HC player and run away from any risk though ). - If your character can instantly kill Izaro, there is no mechanic about him that you need to deal with in the first place ( apart from that first move at most ). Now if you are telling that you "hate Izaro" or "enjoy blowing your currency" ... I guess that would make more sense then. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jan 4, 2019, 12:34:10 AM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jan 4, 2019, 12:30:39 AM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: The thing here, is that you want to convince people ( and likely yourself ) that your characters are super strong and that there is no strength problem regarding your character + the lab at all. I'm just saying that if there wasn't, you would not need a carry, even if you hate the lab. This is very simple. And I ( and others ) have shown/explained why. Now you can keep trying to convince people all you want, the facts that were put forward do remain : - The thing that carries allow you is to not need to fight Izaro. - If your character is strong enough, you do not need a carry because you can kill Izaro on your own ( you could be a 'fake' HC player and run away from any risk though ). - If your character can instantly kill Izaro, there is no mechanic about him that you need to deal with in the first place ( apart from that first move at most ). Now if you are telling that you "hate Izaro" or "enjoy blowing your currency" ... I guess that would make more sense then. I said some of my chars will be able to do that easily, and again I just can't be bothered. Mainly because I don't like the content, and secondarily because Izaro is unpredictable. Regardless of how strong your char is you can always die, and I simply don't want to bother with it. Ever. And again you add little fragments of conversation that never happened. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I just give my opinion and mine only. I don't even believe in the OP point, because I never got scammed getting lab carries, so I think he's overreacting in how much it is actually happening.	Posted by Miská#0911 on Jan 4, 2019, 1:18:43 AM Quote this Post
Izaro unpredictable? What the hell are you talking about? Not only he telegraphs animations more than Kitava (Which is also joke boss fight btw), but like the responder said. If you are able to kill him quickly, there is absolutely no mechanic in question. Like in every boss fight in this bloody game (that don't have stages). You know how proper Izaro boss fight looks like? You enter the zone, buffer up damage, while he's going up the elevator, release damage, continue to next stage. All in all with the elevator part it takes 15-20 seconds, while the boss fight itself is 10s at worst. Yes, you need to let him buff sometimes to get a key, but that's just lab farmers thing. And yes, I do pay for carries (trials and Uber) because I simply can't afford to lose currency or spare time, until I can sustain currency and get good gear. I also hate lab. We are doing it, because Izaro shoot blanks and we don't even get to bang his hot wife at the end (which was the whole purpose of this trial). Let that sink in. But my main problem is the enchant system. Last edited by Sixtysan#6617 on Jan 4, 2019, 3:54:12 AM	Posted by Sixtysan#6617 on Jan 4, 2019, 3:22:06 AM Quote this Post