Whats the point of changing ascenday but still forcing lab?

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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spludgevan wrote:

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spludgevan wrote:

How about this? Since some people don't like lab, make a currency that gives you acendencies at a tiered level. Let's say if you want to ascend to the cruel level of any class you buy this "Cruel Orb of Ascendants" that grant you 2 passive ascendancy points if you have already ascended from Normal. The orb can also have specific level requirements in order to use so that you can't just ascend any character to max before a certain level. This gives players who want to do lab more incentive to farm these orbs, enchantments and treasures. For those that do not want to do lab, you still pay a price for it but in the form of currency. Market rates should balance the price of the orbs.

I forgot to add though I thought it was fairly obvious that you obtain these orbs by defeating Izaro and each tier of orbs drop according to the difficulty of the lab level. This also gives an incentive for players to farm lower level labs. Hey. another plus point!

The only issue is level. If you bought the coin you should still have to do the lab after having all the traps removed and have to fight 2 Izaro at the same time to compensate for the lack of traps after buying the coin.

You would buy the coin fight Izaro's and kill them and be done. I would do that, hell it sounds much more fun.

Hi. Not sure whether I understand what the issue with levels is. If a currency system were to be implemented then it should be right that there be a level requirement for ascending.

Also for anyone that doesn't like lab in the first place, why force them to do a "trap-less" lab? I think the lab is at a good place where it is right now. As you said so yourself, it is easy but you among other players feel forced to run it or don't find it fun and yes I agree. It does feel forced because of ascendencies. Fun however is relative and subjective. Introducing a currency system allows some part of the community the option of not running lab content to ascend but still comes at a cost. It's a win win situation I think.

An ascendancy orb is a good idea, IMHO. Here's a similar suggestion with some small differences in the detail.

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VI) New currency : Ascendancy Orb (i dont remember details on this one so ill suggest), rarity same as divines can drop only in red maps, izaro has 25%/50%/75%/100% chance to drop 1 (max) in each difficulty. It can work as 1 ascendancy point respec too. Labyrinthh stays as it is now.
-Unknown, Regulator

Lore and labyrinth upsides stay intact. You can have early access to AC points or wait until 70+ maps and be lucky enought to get Ascendancy Orbs to drop. It gives another reward to lab runners that they can trade afterwards for more profit. Downsides include : the current labyrinth downsides, gating behind rng + arcade playstyle. A solid suggestion too.

SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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deserttfoxx wrote:

Here is a quick bandaid - you walk into lab, the first room, of every tier is argus. you beat argus, he has the ascendancy plaque beside him, you choose it, then you go forward to the rest of treasure if you want.

You're speaking as if there is an issue to start with which there isn't. You already - walk into lab, rush to the Aspirants and go do the boss, Repeat 3 times get Ascendancy+2-3 Chests at the End+an Enchant... Seems pretty reasonable to me all the shit you walk away with for doing something your build pretty much requires and will be doing anyway.

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Killing a boss is fight, running through that trap house isnt, that place is not fun, that entire game mode is counter to why i play an action game and for people who want to farm lab for whatever godforsaken reason, can still do that.

Well lets go back to what i just got done saying above... You not only get your Ascendancy you also get ALL that other shit. So im gonna go out on a limb your one of those who dont know how people make stacks upon stacks of hundreds and in some cases thousands of exalts from simple farming methods in places like Uber Lab.. Especially on the right days. Because the returns are pretty much there if you just know what your doing when enchanting. Especially early league.

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I see these ascendancy changes and i just decide i am not going to see most of it or even try because i refuse to force myself to attempt uberlab more than once per league... not per character, per league.

Well thats on you man.. i mean honestly if you haven't already figured out people will certainly run you through uber lab for you simply providing the key to get in... Again back to the above. If you hate lab so much you only have to do it once per character and that's it. And you provide a key for each build and sell the rest throughout the league for a few hundred to a couple thousand chaos depending on how many trials you farm which if you hate lab i would assume trials are not gonna be your thing either?....

So tell me now.. how exactly do you make currency to sustain yourself throughout a league?
One of the main ways people establish themselves in a league setting you just refuse.. One of the easier methods also imo anyway.. Atziri i suppose could be argued easier but also argued the window of time you have to capitalize on that is much shorter with Atziri as a result of it being a bit easier to farm.. Uber lab is something that holds profits well into about halfway in the league most of the time before it starts to fall off.

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Baron01 wrote:

Also, fun is subjective quality, therefore, it should be removed from any serious discussion about merits of Labyrinth. There will always be people who like or dislike it. That is a reason why "fun" factor should not be relevant in this discussion.

There are two problems with statements such as this.

One, I conservatively estimate that 95% of all suggestions in this subforum are made with reference to the poster's personal perception of what is and isn't fun. Indeed, What do you find fun or not fun, and why? is one of the most important questions devs have for their players, and if they did not care about the answers feedback forums wouldn't even exist.

Two, almost every post in this thread is an expression of an opinion, i.e. a subjective viewpoint, including your own post which expresses your opinion of what aspects of Labyrinth compose a legitimate basis for discussion. Therefore, while I respect your opinion and have absolutely zero problem with you expressing it, much like the statement My opinion is that all opinions should be ignored, your argument is self-defeating.

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Demonoz wrote:

Spoiler

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deserttfoxx wrote:

Here is a quick bandaid - you walk into lab, the first room, of every tier is argus. you beat argus, he has the ascendancy plaque beside him, you choose it, then you go forward to the rest of treasure if you want.

You're speaking as if there is an issue to start with which there isn't. You already - walk into lab, rush to the Aspirants and go do the boss, Repeat 3 times get Ascendancy+2-3 Chests at the End+an Enchant... Seems pretty reasonable to me all the shit you walk away with for doing something your build pretty much requires and will be doing anyway.

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Killing a boss is fight, running through that trap house isnt, that place is not fun, that entire game mode is counter to why i play an action game and for people who want to farm lab for whatever godforsaken reason, can still do that.

Well lets go back to what i just got done saying above... You not only get your Ascendancy you also get ALL that other shit. So im gonna go out on a limb your one of those who dont know how people make stacks upon stacks of hundreds and in some cases thousands of exalts from simple farming methods in places like Uber Lab.. Especially on the right days. Because the returns are pretty much there if you just know what your doing when enchanting. Especially early league.

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I see these ascendancy changes and i just decide i am not going to see most of it or even try because i refuse to force myself to attempt uberlab more than once per league... not per character, per league.

Well thats on you man.. i mean honestly if you haven't already figured out people will certainly run you through uber lab for you simply providing the key to get in... Again back to the above. If you hate lab so much you only have to do it once per character and that's it. And you provide a key for each build and sell the rest throughout the league for a few hundred to a couple thousand chaos depending on how many trials you farm which if you hate lab i would assume trials are not gonna be your thing either?....

So tell me now.. how exactly do you make currency to sustain yourself throughout a league?
One of the main ways people establish themselves in a league setting you just refuse.. One of the easier methods also imo anyway.. Atziri i suppose could be argued easier but also argued the window of time you have to capitalize on that is much shorter with Atziri as a result of it being a bit easier to farm.. Uber lab is something that holds profits well into about halfway in the league most of the time before it starts to fall off.

Essentially, your reply to deserttfoxx's post saying "Lab is so unenjoyable that I'd rather not run it" is to provide a brief lecture about the economics of POE.

Am I wrong in that interpretation?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Baron01 wrote:

Also, fun is subjective quality, therefore, it should be removed from any serious discussion about merits of Labyrinth. There will always be people who like or dislike it. That is a reason why "fun" factor should not be relevant in this discussion.

There are two problems with statements such as this.

One, I conservatively estimate that 95% of all suggestions in this subforum are made with reference to the poster's personal perception of what is and isn't fun. Indeed, What do you find fun or not fun, and why? is one of the most important questions devs have for their players, and if they did not care about the answers feedback forums wouldn't even exist.

Two, almost every post in this thread is an expression of an opinion, i.e. a subjective viewpoint, including your own post which expresses your opinion of what aspects of Labyrinth compose a legitimate basis for discussion. Therefore, while I respect your opinion and have absolutely zero problem with you expressing it, much like the statement My opinion is that all opinions should be ignored, your argument is self-defeating.

First, it's nicely put, presented and flawless logic.

Second, a bit deep and I'm afraid lost on most here. Not because they are incapable of understanding just that they won't bother themselves to try to understand.

Third, thanks for the laugh.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Its a joke

No, it is not, i am serious.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

either way at those levels they should remove the boredom

You feel boredom, i feed excited.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Also at the levels you can do they they make you really OP.

Sorry, i could not understand what did you mean here.

Gotta say I find these changes of words very amusing.

1. "I like this, so you must do it too!"
2. "I like this, can't understand why you don't!"
3. "Screw your opinions!"
4. "Your answer doesn't agree with me, so it doesn't matter!"
5. "Hey this is fun..." <- direct reply 6. "Omg you have so few challenges done this league, what you know about the game!?"

^^ pretty much sums up a lot of the replies to the thread, quite interesting though.

If following the top most 'quote' from the little list, I could make following claim;

"I liked how we had to run through the acts 1-4 three times, everyone who didn't do that, should need to do the same before they're allowed play PoE as it is now."

Now if I did that, I'd expect people answering me with the 3rd quote from the top of the reply I wrote.

But it follows the same logic people keep saying when it comes to Lab and feedback regarding it, why it's not same on this? People are weird. :3

Have a great weekend everyone!

_Skittles_

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DivineChampion wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Its a joke

No, it is not, i am serious.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

either way at those levels they should remove the boredom

You feel boredom, i feed excited.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Also at the levels you can do they they make you really OP.

Sorry, i could not understand what did you mean here.

Then you must hit the noob traps the developers mention.

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_Skittles_ wrote:

Gotta say I find these changes of words very amusing.

1. "I like this, so you must do it too!"
2. "I like this, can't understand why you don't!"
3. "Screw your opinions!"
4. "Your answer doesn't agree with me, so it doesn't matter!"
5. "Hey this is fun..." <- direct reply 6. "Omg you have so few challenges done this league, what you know about the game!?"

^^ pretty much sums up a lot of the replies to the thread, quite interesting though.

If following the top most 'quote' from the little list, I could make following claim;

"I liked how we had to run through the acts 1-4 three times, everyone who didn't do that, should need to do the same before they're allowed play PoE as it is now."

Now if I did that, I'd expect people answering me with the 3rd quote from the top of the reply I wrote.

But it follows the same logic people keep saying when it comes to Lab and feedback regarding it, why it's not same on this? People are weird. :3

Have a great weekend everyone!

_Skittles_

You're not looking at it objectively. You should include what those replies are replying to.
.5. “I don't like this, so the game should change to accomodate my personal preferences”
And 1.5. “I don't like this and can't see how anybody can”